But you were making your point by pointing out the number of 6A undefeated teams. My point is that's immaterial especially 2 weeks into the season. It tells us nothing.

 

To be fair to 5A most classes, if not all, lack quality in depth.

 

1A is bad with two maybe 3 good teams in a year.

2A is OK but still dominated by 1 team.

Not smart enough to discuss 3A.

4A - A few quality teams dominated by one stud program

5A - Similar to 4A but maybe less depth.

6A - 1 great program, 2 strong programs, and bunch of decent after that.

 

No one owns the title of weakest.

 

I agree.

I think the only things John Hardin's loss tells us is that

 

1.) Maybe we overrated John Hardin because they are John Hardin and have earned respect over the past few years.

 

2.) That DeSales is underrated and that they haven't earned respect over the past few years.

 

3.) That maybe John Hardin is adjusting to a new coach

 

4.) That none of this has anything to do with Bowling Green in 2013.

I think ever since Highlands and CovCath were re-aligned into 4A that Bowling Green has benefitted from this more than anyone. Re-alignment has allowed the Bowling Green program to ascend to levels it has never been to before. 5A as a whole is weaker without Highlands and CovCath and 4A is stronger with both of them. These are easy observations that even the casual fan can make. At the same time I don't think it is fair to Bowling Green or other schools in 5A in 2013 to base how strong they are because the preseason #2 and #3 teams have played below expectations. It also isn't fair to judge Bowling Green in 2011 and 2012 based off of a week 2 game in 2013. Just because John Hardin and Warren Central have proven to be less than stellar as of 9-4-13 doesn't mean that Conner and Harlan County aren't stronger than people want to give them credit for.

But you were making your point by pointing out the number of 6A undefeated teams. My point is that's immaterial especially 2 weeks into the season. It tells us nothing.

 

To be fair to 5A most classes, if not all, lack quality in depth.

 

1A is bad with two maybe 3 good teams in a year.

2A is OK but still dominated by 1 team.

Not smart enough to discuss 3A.

4A - A few quality teams dominated by one stud program

5A - Similar to 4A but maybe less depth.

6A - 1 great program, 2 strong programs, and bunch of decent after that.

 

No one owns the title of weakest.

That was my point all along.

 

Ready first post and the one about undefeated teams was just that. It doesn't say anything in particular when it comes to saying 5A is a bad class compared to the others.

Personally I think all the classes are weaker... 6a, teams get beat on a weekly basis by smaller schools, you got a few top teams that no one beats but having the private schools does not make you a strong class. 5a, has BG rest is up for grabs, but with the exception of Highlands, our top ten could play with your top ten any day, Lex Cath, Cov Cath, Boyle are all not the strongholds they once were. 3a is most competitive class to me, 2a can be as well, 1a is a two horse race most years. So lets be honest here guys.

Personally I think all the classes are weaker... 6a, teams get beat on a weekly basis by smaller schools, you got a few top teams that no one beats but having the private schools does not make you a strong class. 5a, has BG rest is up for grabs, but with the exception of Highlands, our top ten could play with your top ten any day, Lex Cath, Cov Cath, Boyle are all not the strongholds they once were. 3a is most competitive class to me, 2a can be as well, 1a is a two horse race most years. So lets be honest here guys.

 

Some good points here.

 

While we are being honest.....

 

6A: Now is the 'big 3'. Historically, Jefferson County has dominated the highest level from 1959. The exceptions were larger semi-rural schools (schools with a sizable metro but not NKY or Fayette), for a few years (after busing) the Fayettes had a good run with turmoil in Jefferson County but afterwards the 'old big 3' took over - X, T and Male. With the more recent adjustments to school patterns in Louisville Male has fallen off and will have hard time challenging the current 'big 3'. Many top players in Jefferson County are looking to go to the big 2. Other than Central the Louisville publics will struggle. the Fayette schools have a super-weak feeder system and some are in constant coaching turmoil (Dunbar, Bryan Station), soccer is big in Fayette and siphons off some good talent that could be wearing pads in the fall. Any change to this in the near future - probably not.

 

5A: With Highlands gone BG has 'benefited'. No doubt. But even had Highlands stayed BG would be very good with its current senior class. This definitely is a special group that I have seen since middle school. After this class graduates it will be interesting to see if BG reloads and will still dominate next year or if that class gets tighter. John Hardin may be less strong but as long the Hardin County schools stay in 5A they should be factors most years. Remember, the Army is moving lots of people into Fort Knox. There are lot of dynamics there and growth. Growth can create setbacks - even if the pool of overall players is better in the area (and it should be with influx). But what if the schools get large enough to go to 6A? Not sure how close they are are now. But schools sizes and their class assignment do change.

Changes in the near future - BG may come back to the rest after this year, but maybe not. Hardin schools should be in the mix most years and may become very strong in the next few years.

 

4A: There's Highlands, the 'other 3' (CovCath, LexCath, Boyle) and then the rest. Changes in the near future - probably not.

 

3A: Central benefits from some of the changes in Jefferson County. It stays strong. Others may challenge. Changes in the near future - maybe, but Central will like always be near the top for the foreseeable future.

 

2A: Now belongs the small Catholic schools in NKY and mostly NCC. Fort Campbell is now in 3A. Changes in near future - maybe but unlikely.

 

1A: Mayfield, Beechwood, Hazard and the others. Lexington Christian is now in 2A and even if they were still in 1A would have hard time challenging at the current time. Changes in the near future - probably not.

 

 

 

The die for the highest levels of each class seems to be cast for the next few years. No amount of tweaking, class changes (other than reducing), etc. by KHSAA will likely change that. It is what it is for now.

The points by most on this are right on. We pretty much know every year who is going to win the titles in every class with either one, two, or maybe three teams. It takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me. I am not criticizing those that have built their programs and are always there, in fact, i admire them. I really don't have a solution that everyone would like, but I am not sure anyone does. It is just naive to think that some schools will ever get there for a myriad of reasons. I used to think until very recently that the more classes the better, not my thinking any more. I believe it might be best that we have 2 classes and go at it from there. Yes, we would have the same 8-10 teams every year by and large, but it would mske for better playoffs in my mind. I would love to see Trinity, X, Highlands, BG, Scott County, JH, etc go at it, although I do believe Trinity over the last few years would have dominated, but I think the others would rise to another level to compete. Then you would have Central, NCC, Mayfield, Beechwood, Hazard, Belfry, etc. go after it also. To me that would add more drama, not saying these schools shouldn't be proud, but the outcomes of the champion not as certain. Basketball in Ky. is the best example. The best team somtimes doesn't win it, but the best team at that time does. You would also have those outliers, like we do in basketball make a run occassionally. I may be alone, but I'd like it better. My Bulldogs at Holmes would be no worse for the wear, as well as many others, but I wouldn't feel like several classes were a foregone conclusion, we pretty much know the outcome right now.

One horse race.:deadhorse:

I'll say it again. 5A is just like every other class. They have one really good team and all the others are a couple steps behind. Just like 6A, just like 4A and 3A etc.

 

Not sure what the fixation with 5A is especially when most 5A teams have beaten 6A schools so far in the season once again.

 

But you were making your point by pointing out the number of 6A undefeated teams. My point is that's immaterial especially 2 weeks into the season. It tells us nothing.

 

To be fair to 5A most classes, if not all, lack quality in depth.

 

1A is bad with two maybe 3 good teams in a year.

2A is OK but still dominated by 1 team.

Not smart enough to discuss 3A.

4A - A few quality teams dominated by one stud program

5A - Similar to 4A but maybe less depth.

6A - 1 great program, 2 strong programs, and bunch of decent after that.

 

No one owns the title of weakest.

 

One horse race.:deadhorse:

 

 

Preface my remarks by saying, I think six classes in Kentucky is ridiculous. Get to four classes, and you'd see much more compelling football in November (save class 4A, which would still be WAY top heavy.)

 

While Hellbird and Clyde, may be arguing I think both are actually making good points for why dropping to 4 classes is a good idea. Which class is strong? When we are arguing which class is the weakest, instead of most competitive, I think we have a problem with the entire system, not one class.

 

Wouldn't Kentucky football be better if we were discussing which class would have the best playoff matchups instead which class is the worst of a bad lot?

 

Which brings me to the last quoted. Yep 5A is likely a one horse race, but so is 4A, and I think I can at least make an argument that 3A could be. I know I could argue 6A is. People would disagree, but I can make a compelling argument.

 

If after two weeks of football, I can argue that 2/3's of the classes are one-horse races, isn't that an indictment of the system? Is there a class that's more than a two-horse race?

 

I recall one of the reasons for moving to six classes was to create more parity. That was well thought out.

Preface my remarks by saying, I think six classes in Kentucky is ridiculous. Get to four classes, and you'd see much more compelling football in November (save class 4A, which would still be WAY top heavy.)

 

While Hellbird and Clyde, may be arguing I think both are actually making good points for why dropping to 4 classes is a good idea. Which class is strong? When we are arguing which class is the weakest, instead of most competitive, I think we have a problem with the entire system, not one class.

 

Wouldn't Kentucky football be better if we were discussing which class would have the best playoff matchups instead which class is the worst of a bad lot?

 

Which brings me to the last quoted. Yep 5A is likely a one horse race, but so is 4A, and I think I can at least make an argument that 3A could be. I know I could argue 6A is. People would disagree, but I can make a compelling argument.

 

If after two weeks of football, I can argue that 2/3's of the classes are one-horse races, isn't that an indictment of the system? Is there a class that's more than a two-horse race?

 

I recall one of the reasons for moving to six classes was to create more parity. That was well thought out.

Actually I think clyde and i along with you are saying the exact same thing.

 

There isn't one class betteror worse than the other classes in my mind. Most havea top team or maybe 2, but even the Classes some argue that have 2 top teams are just fulling themselves because there really in most cases is only 1 true top team.

 

Take 4A for example, many say there are 2 top teams and they bring up HHS and CCH. In reality is CCH really a top team when they can't win? Same as 6A when they say X and T, but is X really a threat when they can't beat T?

 

I do agree now that 6 classes is too many, but at the same time if you make it 4 classes, will things really change much? In a 4 class system, will anyone besides T dominate? I doubt it. It would probably make some other classes a little more competitive....maybe, but I think the top teams in the classes will remain the top teams most of the time.

I see how everyone likes the idea of such Good football in 4 class system, but to be honest it was not much different same teams each year. at least now we get to lay eyes on a few new faces even if they do get trounced. Let be honest 6 classes came about all due to the private vs public debate. The two extra classes eliminated some of the classes loading up with private schools in play offs. I believe this is when and why it all came about.

Actually I think clyde and i along with you are saying the exact same thing.

 

There isn't one class betteror worse than the other classes in my mind. Most havea top team or maybe 2, but even the Classes some argue that have 2 top teams are just fulling themselves because there really in most cases is only 1 true top team.

 

Take 4A for example, many say there are 2 top teams and they bring up HHS and CCH. In reality is CCH really a top team when they can't win? Same as 6A when they say X and T, but is X really a threat when they can't beat T?

 

I do agree now that 6 classes is too many, but at the same time if you make it 4 classes, will things really change much? In a 4 class system, will anyone besides T dominate? I doubt it. It would probably make some other classes a little more competitive....maybe, but I think the top teams in the classes will remain the top teams most of the time.

 

I agree, it appears you, I and Clyde are essentially making the same argument. That's why I quoted your and his earlier posts.

 

Don't quite get what your trying to say in your last graph above though. I agree, whichever class T is in 4A for my argument will be a one horse race most of the time. But, you asked if things will really change much in other classes and then went on to say they would be a little more competitive. There's your answer then. I do think it would change things in other classes.

 

I see how everyone likes the idea of such Good football in 4 class system, but to be honest it was not much different same teams each year. at least now we get to lay eyes on a few new faces even if they do get trounced. Let be honest 6 classes came about all due to the private vs public debate. The two extra classes eliminated some of the classes loading up with private schools in play offs. I believe this is when and why it all came about.

 

To an extent you are right, even in four classes there are still going to be your "dominate schools" that win more state titles than anyone else in their respective class. But, it won't be nearly to the extent they are doing it now. Highlands honestly might win 10 state titles in a row in the current system. In a four class system, they'd still win plenty, but no way they win 10 in a row.

 

My point was basically that in 4 classes we would see more competitive games for more weeks in the playoffs, therefore more games with two teams having a chance to win. That type of parity would eliminate the kind of one school domination we are seeing right now.

 

As for the public/private debate. Maybe you are correct with that's how this all came about. I'm sure it had at least something to do with it. But, that was a bad call then. Who are the dominate private schools (T and X. NewCath as a small school) Then who? Moving to six classes wasn't going to fix this problem, T and X were still going to be with the biggest schools and NewCath was still going to be a problem wherever they landed.

Warren Central loses to the same 2A school

 

Conner loses to a pretty good 6A Simon Kenton

 

Harlan County loses at home to a very good 3A Belfry

 

Madisonville North Hopkins loses bad to Central Hardin

 

Cooper less than impressive against a weak Boone County

Warren Central loses to the same 2A school

 

Conner loses to a pretty good 6A Simon Kenton

 

Harlan County loses at home to a very good 3A Belfry

 

Madisonville North Hopkins loses bad to Central Hardin

 

Cooper less than impressive against a weak Boone County

Not saying Cooper will do as good as last year, not close imo, but at the same time they beat Boone by 15 points, and the only score Boone had was off a turnover. Last year cooper beat them by only 10 points.

Warren Central loses to the same 2A school

 

Conner loses to a pretty good 6A Simon Kenton

 

Harlan County loses at home to a very good 3A Belfry

 

Madisonville North Hopkins loses bad to Central Hardin

 

Cooper less than impressive against a weak Boone County

 

 

Madisonville is a 4A school.