I can speak for Highlands on this one and I can tell you yes they work extremely hard in both the season and off season but Dale "gets it" and more coaches should take notes across the state.

 

He does not do double sessions, he does not do 7 on 7 showcases and other events, he does not encourage kids to get additional training outside of what he is implementing during his time with the kids, he does not discourage kids from playing other sports.

 

I believe Dale is a minority here but he knows what he is doing and the parents and kids trust him.

He will someday be a very wealthy man if he wants to write a few books about how to coach HS football :thumb:

 

I know several across the state who are doing just this. Maybe minus the 7v7 tourney's on Saturday, but I don't see that doing one of those is any big deal. Truth be told, most coaches that I know who take their teams to the tourney's on Saturday's do so merely for the kids; because THEY want to go.

I'm going through this now with basketball conditioning. I have some kids you can't pry off the couch with a monetary bribe. Some kids are waiting at the gym door when I get there or even texting me trying to get in the gym early. If a kid want's to be successful, then he/she is gonna have to put the time in, period. Be that sports or academics. Coaches have to do the same thing, they have to put the work in to get the best out of the kids/team, its part of the job and should be expected.

 

Now, of course there has to be a balance struck somewhere, and some coaches might go too far at times, but the work has to be put in.

 

Some are saying it wasn't that way when I was a kid...didn't have all the workouts, camps, practices, etc. in the off season. True for me as well, I graduated hs in 1984. But a BIG part of that was the OPPORTUNITIES for those sorts of things weren't there nearly as much either. All the leagues, tournaments, camps, instructional opportunities...all of that is fairly recent phenomena. When I was in hs team camp was a HUGE deal and about all there was out there. Any other basketball during the summer came on the outdoor street courts, pick up ball at the Boys Club or your hoop in your driveway. I could only wish I had the same opportunities then as kids are offered now.

Ru, do you think some of the coaches feel there is too much practice because they themselves don't want to put in so much time? Or feel that their programs don't have the commitment level other programs do, and by reducing the amount of permissible practice time, it could be an equalizing influence?

 

With some coaches, no question about it. However, with the coach I spoke to I believe he would absolutely run through brick walls to do whatever he could to make his players/program/football team the best it could be. I believe he was speaking from the heart. Additionally, this is exactly one of the reasons coaches don't want to go on the record about it because they may be labeled as lazy.

In my opinion, you cannot adequately answer Ru's question without first defining the purpose of high school sports, and maybe also without defining the purpose of youth sports in general. I don't think you'd have too much difficulty gaining consensus on this board that the place of youth sports in our society has gotten out of wack, and if we'd all take a step back & re-evaluate the purpose of sports to begin with, Ru's question would probably answer itself.

 

We all love our winning programs, but are they serving the purpose they were established for?

With some coaches, no question about it. However, with the coach I spoke to I believe he would absolutely run through brick walls to do whatever he could to make his players/program/football team the best it could be. I believe he was speaking from the heart. Additionally, this is exactly one of the reasons coaches don't want to go on the record about it because they may be labeled as lazy.

 

Then that coach should talk first to his administration and explain that he thinks kids are putting in too much time practicing and that he'd like to see the time cut back even if that means being less successful on the field. If the administrators don't agree with him, then he should probably coach somewhere else. If the administrators agree with him, he then meets with the parents and players and tells them that with the support of administration, he is going to start doing things differently (ie, requiring less practice time, less off season conditioning, whatever) and why he thinks that is in the best interest of the players (and perhaps him and his coaches). Explain to them, that such may, repeat may, mean less wins on the field but in his and the administration's opinion, there are more things more important to wins and losses (a concept way too often lost on adults and in particular coaches). I'd have a lot of respect for that coach.

 

If he doesn't think all the practice time is healthy for his kids, then he shouldn't require it, but I don't like the concept that the rules should be changed for everyone just because the coach you spoke with honestly believed it was bad for his kids. We already have way too much of the "if I don't like it, you shouldn't be able to do it" mentality in this country, whether that be owning a gun, smoking, eating red meat, driving a gas guzzling truck, drinking a super sized Coke, etc., etc. Perhaps at some programs, the best thing going on in the players' lives is the structured environment of practices every or almost every day; the discipline gained by being somewhere every day on time, the physical benefit gained from practicing over sitting on the couch in the air conditioning playing video games. Let each administration and each head coach determine what is best for their kids.

 

Personally, I don't think high school athletics are as out of whack as some others do. Seriously. I see more of a problem at the youth sports level and with the AAU, Select and Club leagues. I mean seriously; 7th and 8th graders playing 30 or more baseball games during the summer on a select baseball team? Most high school football practices, if they are ran properly and efficiently, during the summer don't last more than 1.5 to 2 hours. Add in the get to and get back time and you're probably looking at 3 hours (at least in the urban areas), wouldn't you say? To me, that seems to leave plenty of time for kids to relax, enjoy their summer, play other sports, hang out at the mall, sit on the couch, work a part time job, chase skirts or whatever else they would be doing during the summer.

 

This thread brought to mind an old saying: Idle hands are the tool of the Devil. LOL!

Then that coach should talk first to his administration and explain that he thinks kids are putting in too much time practicing and that he'd like to see the time cut back even if that means being less successful on the field. If the administrators don't agree with him, then he should probably coach somewhere else. If the administrators agree with him, he then meets with the parents and players and tells them that with the support of administration, he is going to start doing things differently (ie, requiring less practice time, less off season conditioning, whatever) and why he thinks that is in the best interest of the players (and perhaps him and his coaches). Explain to them, that such may, repeat may, mean less wins on the field but in his and the administration's opinion, there are more things more important to wins and losses (a concept way too often lost on adults and in particular coaches). I'd have a lot of respect for that coach.

 

If he doesn't think all the practice time is healthy for his kids, then he shouldn't require it, but I don't like the concept that the rules should be changed for everyone just because the coach you spoke with honestly believed it was bad for his kids. We already have way too much of the "if I don't like it, you shouldn't be able to do it" mentality in this country, whether that be owning a gun, smoking, eating red meat, driving a gas guzzling truck, drinking a super sized Coke, etc., etc. Perhaps at some programs, the best thing going on in the players' lives is the structured environment of practices every or almost every day; the discipline gained by being somewhere every day on time, the physical benefit gained from practicing over sitting on the couch in the air conditioning playing video games. Let each administration and each head coach determine what is best for their kids.

 

Personally, I don't think high school athletics are as out of whack as some others do. Seriously. I see more of a problem at the youth sports level and with the AAU, Select and Club leagues. I mean seriously; 7th and 8th graders playing 30 or more baseball games during the summer on a select baseball team? Most high school football practices, if they are ran properly and efficiently, during the summer don't last more than 1.5 to 2 hours. Add in the get to and get back time and you're probably looking at 3 hours (at least in the urban areas), wouldn't you say? To me, that seems to leave plenty of time for kids to relax, enjoy their summer, play other sports, hang out at the mall, sit on the couch, work a part time job, chase skirts or whatever else they would be doing during the summer.

 

This thread brought to mind an old saying: Idle hands are the tool of the Devil. LOL!

You hit on a great point and one I failed to make clear in my post. It's not so much the time put in at high school for the sports but more of the AAU ball that is so time consuming when the kid is also showing up for his schools sports practices.

 

AAU ball has exploded in the last decade or two to where it is in just about every sport but football.

Then that coach should talk first to his administration and explain that he thinks kids are putting in too much time practicing and that he'd like to see the time cut back even if that means being less successful on the field. If the administrators don't agree with him, then he should probably coach somewhere else. If the administrators agree with him, he then meets with the parents and players and tells them that with the support of administration, he is going to start doing things differently (ie, requiring less practice time, less off season conditioning, whatever) and why he thinks that is in the best interest of the players (and perhaps him and his coaches). Explain to them, that such may, repeat may, mean less wins on the field but in his and the administration's opinion, there are more things more important to wins and losses (a concept way too often lost on adults and in particular coaches). I'd have a lot of respect for that coach.

 

If he doesn't think all the practice time is healthy for his kids, then he shouldn't require it, but I don't like the concept that the rules should be changed for everyone just because the coach you spoke with honestly believed it was bad for his kids. We already have way too much of the "if I don't like it, you shouldn't be able to do it" mentality in this country, whether that be owning a gun, smoking, eating red meat, driving a gas guzzling truck, drinking a super sized Coke, etc., etc. Perhaps at some programs, the best thing going on in the players' lives is the structured environment of practices every or almost every day; the discipline gained by being somewhere every day on time, the physical benefit gained from practicing over sitting on the couch in the air conditioning playing video games. Let each administration and each head coach determine what is best for their kids.

 

Personally, I don't think high school athletics are as out of whack as some others do. Seriously. I see more of a problem at the youth sports level and with the AAU, Select and Club leagues. I mean seriously; 7th and 8th graders playing 30 or more baseball games during the summer on a select baseball team? Most high school football practices, if they are ran properly and efficiently, during the summer don't last more than 1.5 to 2 hours. Add in the get to and get back time and you're probably looking at 3 hours (at least in the urban areas), wouldn't you say? To me, that seems to leave plenty of time for kids to relax, enjoy their summer, play other sports, hang out at the mall, sit on the couch, work a part time job, chase skirts or whatever else they would be doing during the summer.

 

This thread brought to mind an old saying: Idle hands are the tool of the Devil. LOL!

 

My ultimate downfall! :lol:

 

He does not do double sessions, he does not do 7 on 7 showcases and other events, he does not encourage kids to get additional training outside of what he is implementing during his time with the kids, he does not discourage kids from playing other sports.

 

I believe Dale is a minority here but he knows what he is doing and the parents and kids trust him.

He will someday be a very wealthy man if he wants to write a few books about how to coach HS football :thumb:

 

Has then always been his philosophy? What would happen in Ft Thomas if he went 2 years without a state title not doing these things if say hypothetically of course they lost to Cov Cath who was doing those things.

 

Before you answer with nothing I witnessed in 2005 they lost a home playoff game and the fans i was around told anyone that would listen how stupid he was and he didn't know anything about offense.

 

Winning gives you the luxury of doing things like you mentioned but let a coach at Dixie, Boone, Simon or any other school who doesn't win state titles and they would be called lazy.

Edited August 2, 201313 yr by Ram

It's a good day when we both agree on something :ylsuper:

 

Heck I agree with you guys also?

It's a good day when we both agree on something :ylsuper:

 

You are speaking waaaaayyyy too much sense today. I don't like it!!!! Go back to being the bad guy! (from my perspective!)

I think most coaches put the time in because other coaches do, so they will not be perceived as not working as hard as others. I believe if there were limitations added most coaches would welcome it.

I think 1 big misconception about athletics is the guys who win work harder than they guys who don't. I've been around HS athletics for 33 years as coach and fan. For most part the guys who win 0-1-2-3 games work just as hard and put in just as much time as the guys who win 8-9-10-15 games.

When Steve Spurrier left pro coaching a reporter ask him what he had learned, he said ' I learned some humility and that the coaches and players who don't win work just as hard as the ones that do"

Can't say too much that hasn't been said, but I'll try! I can't stand where the year round sport philosophy has gone. It's puts way too much pressure on the kids and the families. Yes, you can say don't participate, but if the kid has a passion for a sport and they strive (like any good athlete) to be the best, you almost are forced these days to play year round or you lose ground to the others in that sport (even if you don't want to play year round). I've coached and run an AAU organization for years and I have multiple examples of kids that got passed up or ended up giving up a sport because they couldn't keep up with the schedule. And we didn't even really play year round. I hate it!!! But I don't know how to fix it. As long as there is competition, people will try to get an edge on their opponent.

 

As for the old days, we all know it has evolved. But a couple points. We talk about year round sports. Even though there wasn't as many opportunities back then and we officially played the sport that was in season, we still never stopped competing. I would leave the house in the morning and not come home til the street lights came on. The entire time we were playing pickup games or doing something related to sports! We were outside playing and learning the games on our own. As it relates to injury, I had just as much chance (or more) to get injured doing the things I was doing without supervision. Now, I find myself getting on my kids to "get off the couch" or "get off the video games". But what I've come to realize is that those things (active vs downtime) have done a 180. My kids spend sooooo much time at practices and games in a week (usually multiple sports at once), that they need that lazy day on the couch or time in front of the TV to download and relax. It's the only time they aren't running! The old school in me wants to say "get your lazy a$$ off the couch and do something", but I stop myself becuase they really are doing something...taking a much needed rest!

 

My oldest daugther and I are having the "1 sport" conversation now. She is going into her sophomore year. She is pretty good at bball and softball. She wants to play one of them in college. She doesn't want to give the other one up at the competitive level. She is a good athlete, but she's not elite. We know that if her goal is to play one of them in college, she will probably have to focus on one. She has been a ball of stress the last month trying to decide what she wants to do. We are obviosly doing the parent consulting, but it has to be her choice and I hate seeing her have to go through this. For us, it's not about the money or scholarship. By no means are we wealthy and don't care about paying, trust me! I would take a scholarship now! But it's really that she really wants to continue playing after high school. She loves her sports! We hate seeing her have to decide but we do think if she wants to reach HER goal, it's almost a must.

Heck I agree with you guys also?

 

You are speaking waaaaayyyy too much sense today. I don't like it!!!! Go back to being the bad guy! (from my perspective!)

Glad to see you guys taking the goggles that has blinded you from my wisdom all this time lol

 

I guess those voodoo dolls I have of you all is working. :dancingpa

In reference to RCC9 and his daughters situation. I know a girls college basketball assistant, 2 college boys assistants and several college football assistants.

College coaches really like for their recruits to play other sports. It shows their versatility and athletic ability. Another big factor is if a recruit has focused on 1 sport for 3-4-5 years they worry about burnout.

I'm not saying shouldn't give one up or should, just a few other things to weigh in. If you know or have access to any college coaches I'm sure any of them would be happy to discuss it with you.

Nothing is stopping the kids from working out on their own during dead period.

I agree with you, but as you know rules prohibit them from coming to their school to work out on their own during dead period...many can't afford a gym membership. Few kids are going to run around the park. Frankly, many kids are going to take that 2 week break and just stay inside doing nothing. My point is have the break, but for football, figure out a way for the break to be in June vs 2 weeks leading into the first practice. There are other states that have dead periods, they just don't have the same dead period for all sports.