First, even his harshest critics should wait to see what he says before declaring him a disciple of the doctrine this church believes. I would anticipate that he will speak to his personal faith, not specific doctrine. If I were to attend this event and it turned out that he spoke in support of any specific doctrine. I'd love it if he'd speak of inclusive Christianity. Someone mentioned earlier that they know Catholics who believe that only Catholics will gain entrance to Heaven. I was raised that way. From birth to high school that's what I was taught. When I entered high school, my religion classes were less about doctrine, dogma, catechism, etc, and more about exploring not only our own personal faith, but other faiths. That's when I learned that we DO believe other Christians and even Jews will see God. With respect to the question of Muslims, they believe in God, but follow the teachings of Mohammad. Although not the same as Judaism, I find no reason to believe that they won't see God, other than any that would prevent any Christian or Jew. With respect to Buddahist's, Hindu's, et al, they don't believe in the same God, so I don't see how they could gain entrance to Heaven. But, being as I believe God is the final judge, I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that a good person who lived a good life would be denied. But then there's limbo. So, I don't believe they'll go to Hell, but maybe just never realize true Rapture.

 

And, just as a personal note, I've been told I'm damned to hell because I'm Catholic by more than one Southern Baptist, including a preacher. :lol:

Just to be clear, do you believe that you can make it to Heaven by other means than through Christ?

 

Yes, and KYVince explained my thoughts perfectly. I know many Christians, including some of my Catholic brethren, that take hypocrisy to astronomical levels.

being as I believe God is the final judge, I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that a good person who lived a good life would be denied

 

This is my feeling as well, RM.

Yes, and KYVince explained my thoughts perfectly. I know many Christians, including some of my Catholic brethren, that take hypocrisy to astronomical levels.

Hypocrisy if you're mistaken about God's Word. If we are to be judged by it, it's very clear.

 

I don't understand where the hypocrisy lies.

Edited February 20, 201313 yr by spindoc

But, being as I believe God is the final judge, I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that a good person who lived a good life would be denied.

 

I understand your stance, but we wouldn't have needed a savior to die on the cross for our sins if we could work our way into heaven, in my opinion.

Hypocrisy if you're mistaken about God's Word. If we are to be judged by it, it's very clear.

 

Thanks.

 

In clearer terms, I know many that talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It isn't for me to judge nor determine, I'm simply saying I appreciate people of all faiths who choose to try to live by being kind to others and not judging everyone different from them.

Thanks.

 

In clearer terms, I know many that talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It isn't for me to judge nor determine, I'm simply saying I appreciate people of all faiths who choose to try to live by being kind to others and not judging everyone different from them.

 

I agree, there's a hypocrite in every pew. And I think if we all took your approach toward others, we would live in a better world. I also respect other faiths. I think we can still follow our faiths without being judgmental, do you agree? Do you think that sometimes there's a fine line between standing on the tenets of your faith and "seeming" judgmental?

But, being as I believe God is the final judge, I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that a good person who lived a good life would be denied.

 

I understand your stance, but we wouldn't have needed a savior to die on the cross for our sins if we could work our way into heaven, in my opinion.

 

Yep. :thumb:

But, being as I believe God is the final judge, I also have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that a good person who lived a good life would be denied.

 

I understand your stance, but we wouldn't have needed a savior to die on the cross for our sins if we could work our way into heaven, in my opinion.

 

But even with a Savior who died for us, we are not guaranteed entrance to heaven. We must work everyday to live up to His commandments. Maybe it's the Catholic in me, but I do not believe that one can be "saved", live a life that is counter to His commandments and still be in Heaven at the end of it all.

 

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But even with a Savior who died for us, we are not guaranteed entrance to heaven. We must work everyday to live up to His commandments. Maybe it's the Catholic in me, but I do not believe that one can be "saved", live a life that is counter to His commandments and still be in Heaven at the end of it all.

 

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See now you're getting into the "once in grace, always in grace" deal that the baptist church and other denominations squabble over. But the gift of salvation is free. Just have to accept it. Can't do enough good to earn it, according to God's Word. As for hypocrisy in the church, I think sometimes we all fall short, and I fall short more often than I care to admit. But if someone has their eyes on me, or Randy Parker, or rockmom, or mountain ref, or anyone for that matter, they will be let down. It's focus on Christ that is important. It's through Him that salvation was imparted to us. No more goats on an altar, but the perfect sacrifice of the Son that is important.

Edited February 20, 201313 yr by spindoc

But even with a Savior who died for us, we are not guaranteed entrance to heaven. We must work everyday to live up to His commandments. Maybe it's the Catholic in me, but I do not believe that one can be "saved", live a life that is counter to His commandments and still be in Heaven at the end of it all.

 

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My Catholic education was a few years ago, but we were told that the acceptance of Jesus Christ was our salvation. Followed by , if we truly accept Jesus Christ, then we will try to live up to his commandments. One goes with the other.

My Catholic education was a few years ago, but we were told that the acceptance of Jesus Christ was our salvation. Followed by , if we truly accept Jesus Christ, then we will try to live up to his commandments. One goes with the other.

 

True. Good works are the fruit of one that is saved, not what saves someone.

 

True. Good works are the fruit of one that is saved, not what saves someone.

 

I disagree. I know really, really good people who don't believe in God.

I disagree. I know really, really good people who don't believe in God.

 

Rockmom, I didn't mean that only saved people do good works. I meant that good works is not what gets someone saved.

I disagree. I know really, really good people who don't believe in God.

 

There are certainly people who do good deeds & carry out acts of service for reasons that aren't religiously based.

 

At the same time, the kind of works asked of Christians are the type that point people to Jesus. He asked that we give a cup of cold water in his name. We're told to let our light shine before men that they may see our good deeds & praise the Father in heaven (Mt. 5:16).

 

Good works don't save the believer, but good works done in Christ's name do identify the believer.