January 8, 201313 yr The good old days: When Americans could actually trust government. When Americans didnt have to be scared of not being politically correct. When illegal immigrants came to America to work and not just get on welfare. When our President sent Christmas cards and called them that and not ashamed of being a Christian. When we could believe our President. When you took others word for it or a handshake sealed the deal. When parents believed teachers before their own kids. Why does everything have to go back to race for you all? I am probably as old as you all and didnt experience racism with others, everyone I knew got along. Because the "good ol' days" were dominated by one race. They weren't "good ol' days". The Great Depression doesn't scream "good ol' days" to me. Women had no rights. Blacks had no rights and everyone was an illegal alien. And you want to go back to that kind of government that people trusted? I mean, that kind of government that rich white men trusted.
January 8, 201313 yr Author Because the "good ol' days" were dominated by one race. They weren't "good ol' days". The Great Depression doesn't scream "good ol' days" to me. Women had no rights. Blacks had no rights and everyone was an illegal alien. And you want to go back to that kind of government that people trusted? I mean, that kind of government that rich white men trusted. Everyone wasnt racist then, my family wasnt racist and have always had blacks as close family friends. women have always had rights since I was born. There is more racism today than there was when I was growing up. The Depression didnt involve every single person.
January 8, 201313 yr Everyone wasnt racist then, my family wasnt racist and have always had blacks as close family friends. women have always had rights since I was born. There is more racism today than there was when I was growing up. The Depression didnt involve every single person. By your "Not everyone is..." logic I'd say today is fine. Not every pol is corrupt. Not every pol is afraid to say "Merry Christmas." Not every parent believes their child before the teacher. Not every immigrant comes for welfare. Not every person is unable to be trusted. The good ol' days are essentially no different today other than minorities have rights, all religions are accepted, and the country is not as white.
January 8, 201313 yr Author By your "Not everyone is..." logic I'd say today is fine. Not every pol is corrupt. Not every pol is afraid to say "Merry Christmas." Not every parent believes their child before the teacher. Not every immigrant comes for welfare. Not every person is unable to be trusted. The good ol' days are essentially no different today other than minorities have rights, all religions are accepted, and the country is not as white. Not true at all. The country isnt like it used to be morally and it is very different.
January 8, 201313 yr The good old days: When Americans could actually trust government. When Americans didnt have to be scared of not being politically correct. When illegal immigrants came to America to work and not just get on welfare. When our President sent Christmas cards and called them that and not ashamed of being a Christian. When we could believe our President. When you took others word for it or a handshake sealed the deal. When parents believed teachers before their own kids. Is there a specific date in the history of the United States that all of those things were simultaneously happening? I'm sure they all happened at some point, just like I'm sure they all happen now. They just rarely happen at the same time now, just like they didn't happen at the same time in the 20th century, the 19th century, or the 18th century. The trouble with history is we take the clean, sanitized version that we remember and dismiss the dirty, negative part that we forget (often by choice). Rarely was anything in our country as neat as we want to make it. All of those immigrants who came to work, they were persecuted and harrassed constantly, often legally, by people who couldn't stand the thought of them taking jobs of "Americans." So I see what is happening today as just another lap in a cycle that has happened since the start of our country. The only thing that changes is the people who "Americans" are against.
January 8, 201313 yr no it's today when kids get shot in schools. Movie theaters look out. Wars all over the place. Hmm. your username would suggest that you would know that these types of events are not specific to this time period. The worst school massacre in the U.S. was in 1927. But of course you knew that. Right???
January 8, 201313 yr If the folks arguing with Mountain Ref don't think some values and morals have slid downward in the last several decades, those folks are kidding themselves or more likely, just wanting to argue with Mountain Ref given his rather "extreme" positions and posts on here and the way overly broad nature of his OP. Yes there have been some big improvements in the rights of blacks, women etc. Which is fantastic. No doubt about that. Would those arguing/disagreeing with Mountain Ref agree or disagree that there has been, since the 60s, 70s or even 80s: 1. a decline of driving courtesy; 2. an increase in teen pregnancies; 3. an increase in drug use by teenagers; 4. an increase in binge alcohol drinking by college kids; 5. an increase in black on black crime; 6. an increase in single parent families (and associated problems resulting therefrom); 7. a decrease in respect towards those in "authority"; 8. an increase in the lack of trust towards our elected officials; 9. a decrease in personal responsibility; 10. an increase in the abuse and corruption of entitlement programs? And please for the love of Pete, no one needs to point out that there were problems back in those eras. Duh. Of course there were. Some things, important things, have improved from those eras, thank goodness. Some values have actually improved (ie, tolerance for people of other races, ethnicity, religions, and gender; respect towards the military; etc.). But that doesn't negate the fact that some values and beliefs have eroded (which was my "take away" from Mountain Ref's OP) and need to be addressed by society. Frankly, I'd rather our govt stay out of the morals and values arena, other than to not impede or block efforts of churches, communities, businesses and people to address those values that have eroded.
January 8, 201313 yr The good old days: When Americans could actually trust government. When Americans didnt have to be scared of not being politically correct. When illegal immigrants came to America to work and not just get on welfare. When our President sent Christmas cards and called them that and not ashamed of being a Christian. When we could believe our President. When you took others word for it or a handshake sealed the deal. When parents believed teachers before their own kids. Why does everything have to go back to race for you all? I am probably as old as you all and didnt experience racism with others, everyone I knew got along. When Americans could actually trust government. -I have to believe politicians have been bought and sold for the past two centuries. When Americans didnt have to be scared of not being politically correct. -I am glad it is no longer acceptable that racial terms are tolerated but will give you that it has gone too far. When illegal immigrants came to America to work and not just get on welfare. -I am actually impressed by the work ethic of the Mexican population in my area. When our President sent Christmas cards and called them that and not ashamed of being a Christian. -Mixed feelings on this one. When we could believe our President. -Same as the first one. When you took others word for it or a handshake sealed the deal. -Some people are honest, some are not. Again I have to believe that has been true for all of history. Not sure how a Nationalist Party would help this though. When parents believed teachers before their own kids. -Won't argue with you on this one. Again, not sure how a Nationalist Party would help this. Edited January 8, 201313 yr by Bert
January 8, 201313 yr Would those arguing/disagreeing with Mountain Ref agree or disagree that there has been, since the 60s, 70s or even 80s: 1. a decline of driving courtesy; 2. an increase in teen pregnancies; 3. an increase in drug use by teenagers; 4. an increase in binge alcohol drinking by college kids; 5. an increase in black on black crime; 6. an increase in single parent families (and associated problems resulting therefrom); 7. a decrease in respect towards those in "authority"; 8. an increase in the lack of trust towards our elected officials; 9. a decrease in personal responsibility; 10. an increase in the abuse and corruption of entitlement programs? LN, your point is well taken. But a couple of thoughts on them: 1) There is a much larger population today than 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Does more people tend to make the listed seem more common? 2) There is much more media today than in the past. Are things that were always happening now just more exposed, making them seem more prevalent?
January 8, 201313 yr If the folks arguing with Mountain Ref don't think some values and morals have slid downward in the last several decades, those folks are kidding themselves or more likely, just wanting to argue with Mountain Ref given his rather "extreme" positions and posts on here and the way overly broad nature of his OP. Yes there have been some big improvements in the rights of blacks, women etc. Which is fantastic. No doubt about that. Would those arguing/disagreeing with Mountain Ref agree or disagree that there has been, since the 60s, 70s or even 80s: 1. a decline of driving courtesy; 2. an increase in teen pregnancies; 3. an increase in drug use by teenagers; 4. an increase in binge alcohol drinking by college kids; 5. an increase in black on black crime; 6. an increase in single parent families (and associated problems resulting therefrom); 7. a decrease in respect towards those in "authority"; 8. an increase in the lack of trust towards our elected officials; 9. a decrease in personal responsibility; 10. an increase in the abuse and corruption of entitlement programs? And please for the love of Pete, no one needs to point out that there were problems back in those eras. Duh. Of course there were. Some things, important things, have improved from those eras, thank goodness. Some values have actually improved (ie, tolerance for people of other races, ethnicity, religions, and gender; respect towards the military; etc.). But that doesn't negate the fact that some values and beliefs have eroded (which was my "take away" from Mountain Ref's OP) and need to be addressed by society. Frankly, I'd rather our govt stay out of the morals and values arena, other than to not impede or block efforts of churches, communities, businesses and people to address those values that have eroded. In my case and I assume in most the point being made is there has NEVER been a time that didn't have problems. It's whitewashing history. So we're not arguing to argue. We're pointing out the fallacy of Mt Ref's position. Morals are subjective. You might be argue that people's language has gotten worse. You might argue that gratuitous sex on film is now more widely accepted. Others would say they will trade that decline for more acceptance of humans as humans instead of humans as a category. We can go tit-for-tat all day. That's the point.
January 8, 201313 yr If the folks arguing with Mountain Ref don't think some values and morals have slid downward in the last several decades, those folks are kidding themselves or more likely, just wanting to argue with Mountain Ref given his rather "extreme" positions and posts on here and the way overly broad nature of his OP. Yes there have been some big improvements in the rights of blacks, women etc. Which is fantastic. No doubt about that. Would those arguing/disagreeing with Mountain Ref agree or disagree that there has been, since the 60s, 70s or even 80s: 1. a decline of driving courtesy; 2. an increase in teen pregnancies; 3. an increase in drug use by teenagers; 4. an increase in binge alcohol drinking by college kids; 5. an increase in black on black crime; 6. an increase in single parent families (and associated problems resulting therefrom); 7. a decrease in respect towards those in "authority"; 8. an increase in the lack of trust towards our elected officials; 9. a decrease in personal responsibility; 10. an increase in the abuse and corruption of entitlement programs? And please for the love of Pete, no one needs to point out that there were problems back in those eras. Duh. Of course there were. Some things, important things, have improved from those eras, thank goodness. Some values have actually improved (ie, tolerance for people of other races, ethnicity, religions, and gender; respect towards the military; etc.). But that doesn't negate the fact that some values and beliefs have eroded (which was my "take away" from Mountain Ref's OP) and need to be addressed by society. Frankly, I'd rather our govt stay out of the morals and values arena, other than to not impede or block efforts of churches, communities, businesses and people to address those values that have eroded. I think you bring up a good point that in some areas, values are erroding, badly. In other areas, ugly blotches of America's history have vastly improved (end of slavery where a race of man was treated a step above livestock, end of segregation which was a pretty term for treating a race as second class citizens, admitting that we were pretty cruel to the Native Americans under the excuse of taming savages, women's rights, etc..) So to look at society and say have we improved or declined is something that could be argued on here for days and probably never reach any resolution. All that could probably be agreed upon is that values have changed, some for the better, some for the worse.
January 8, 201313 yr Go backwards for what? I have no complaints whatsoever about the world we live in today. You can't take a black dude and expect him to go backwards. All I see is race and the horrible racial relations that our government refused to do anything about until the 1960s and 1970s. What the hell kind of morals and values are you talking about?
January 8, 201313 yr LN, your point is well taken. But a couple of thoughts on them: 1) There is a much larger population today than 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Does more people tend to make the listed seem more common? 2) There is much more media today than in the past. Are things that were always happening now just more exposed, making them seem more prevalent? Yep
January 8, 201313 yr I think that one things that makes people think they were the good 'ol days is that for the most part everything was local. Information was not shared like it is in today's microwave, instant society. The only way you received the national news was the 6:30 network news or newspaper. For the most part, the news and information that was being "shared" was local news; anything from a national perspective had to be extreme to become a local issue.
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