February 19, 201115 yr The government of Wisconsin is broke, and has to pare down it's spending. What part of "BROKE" doesn't the left understand? Not just no, HELL no. What part of union busting doesn't the right understand? The union has indicated a willingness to negotiate. The governor doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to bust the union and is using the benefits issue as his excuse. I am not a member of a union. but I am smart enough to know that most of what most of us understand as a good job, whether union or not, exists as a direct result of union negotiated agreements. No, HELL NO.
February 19, 201115 yr Explain, please.I was adding I forgot that that they also receive 15 weeks vacation when factoring in benefits. Nothing nefarious from me or toward them.
February 19, 201115 yr TB&G it's called Envy . Not even close, I know you being pro-union want to see it that way, but you couldn't be more wrong. I don't begrudge anyone making as much as possible. I do understand that Wisconsin is broke, however...
February 19, 201115 yr What part of union busting doesn't the right understand? The union has indicated a willingness to negotiate. The governor doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to bust the union and is using the benefits issue as his excuse. I am not a member of a union. but I am smart enough to know that most of what most of us understand as a good job, whether union or not, exists as a direct result of union negotiated agreements. No, HELL NO.Do you also understand that unions have caused problems as well as solved problems? I understand that unions are good as well as bad, just look at what legacy costs did to GM. I recently read an article about just that and it raised some good questions, the article actualy led with - Are companies obligated to take care of ex-employees till they die? If there is no job guarantee, why should your life be guaranteed? What does a company do when they have negotiated unsustainable obligations?
February 19, 201115 yr What part of union busting doesn't the right understand? The union has indicated a willingness to negotiate. The governor doesn't want to negotiate. He wants to bust the union and is using the benefits issue as his excuse. I am not a member of a union. but I am smart enough to know that most of what most of us understand as a good job, whether union or not, exists as a direct result of union negotiated agreements. No, HELL NO. The union was unwilling to negotiate when the Dems had a majority in both houses and only now that they don't have their allies in the state house are they willing to make any concessions. This came from a speech made by the governor addressing their "willingness" to negotiate now. I say give in to their demands then lay off the workers that will be necessary to banamce the budget. The union will really have gotten one over on them then.
February 19, 201115 yr Do you also understand that unions have caused problems as well as solved problems? I understand that unions are good as well as bad, just look at what legacy costs did to GM. I recently read an article about just that and it raised some good questions, the article actualy led with - Are companies obligated to take care of ex-employees till they die? If there is no job guarantee, why should your life be guaranteed? What does a company do when they have negotiated unsustainable obligations? Those benefits were set in negotiations with GM ... no one held a gun to GM's head to sign those contracts. Is that the union's fault? Or is it GM management's fault?
February 19, 201115 yr Oh, I forgot, they also get 15 weeks vacation a year... I agree with you on a lot of things, but as a teacher, basketball coach,cross country coach, and track coach, I get a total of 2 weeks "vacation" of which I'm am still taking classes during that time.
February 19, 201115 yr Actually it's $52,644 for 2009-2010. Doesn't the average teacher in Wisconsin make something like 134% of the salary of the average worker in Wisconsin? Is this compared to other workers that have to have a masters degree in order to do their job? If not, is it an accurate comparison?
February 19, 201115 yr Those benefits were set in negotiations with GM ... no one held a gun to GM's head to sign those contracts. Is that the union's fault? Or is it GM management's fault? Both, in my book.
February 19, 201115 yr I agree with you on a lot of things, but as a teacher, basketball coach,cross country coach, and track coach, I get a total of 2 weeks "vacation" of which I'm am still taking classes during that time.I'm talking about Wisconsin, I understand that it's not the same everywhere. I have no problem with teachers and I know how hard they work. I also understand many have to work other jobs on summer vacation, but some people have to work two jobs just to make ends meet. Edited February 19, 201115 yr by Run To State
February 19, 201115 yr Is this compared to other workers that have to have a masters degree in order to do their job? If not, is it an accurate comparison?Fair point on the education and I don't have a problem with them making that much more, but I don't think they're paid as poorly as some seem to be making it look. Not meaning you, by the way.
February 19, 201115 yr Both, in my book.I'd say it's more on GM management ... the union is certainly negotiating to benefit its members, as it should. If GM thought those were deals they could live with and miscalculated ... well, that's on them.
February 19, 201115 yr I'd say it's more on GM management ... the union is certainly negotiating to benefit its members, as it should. If GM thought those were deals they could live with and miscalculated ... well, that's on them.Except they'll strike if demands aren't met, which is costly. We also have seen the violence when they do strike, so sometimes, I guess you could say they had a "gun held to their head", figuratively speaking.
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