And what is your hourly fee? Public sector employees are under compensated when compared to their private sector co-horts with similar education and training. One way to offset that pay discrepancy is with benefits. If you want to do away with the benefits then you must start with the compensation.

 

How big of a tax break did he give to businesses last week? From what I understand, because of legislation passed LAST WEEK the governor created a false emergency and now wants to make changes.

 

How does eliminating collective bargaining to anything to fix the budget? This is in the budget "fix" bill.

 

Eliminating collective bargaining eliminates the delays inherent with annual negotiations of health care and pension contribution. Those delays cost a lot of money. He wants to eliminate the delays. My reading of it is simply that the state is not going to bargain on those issues.

 

I'm not going to get into the "teachers are undercompensated compared to their private sector cohorts" argument again because we've done it on here before and it causes nothing but bad feeling. Its balderdash. Teachers are telling me they should be compared to MBA middle management professionals. That is ludicrous. Teachers work on tax dollars, private sector employees don't. I've already given the perfectly reasonable statistics - Wisconsin benefits package $89,500. National average for non-public secotr, $61,000. Noone is buying the underpaid argument, and in fact Wisconsin people are so well paid you will notice that the media is NOT spending any time reporting how little they make. If they were not well paid, I can guarante you that every major TV and news station up there would be playing the poverty card, but they're not.

Eliminating collective bargaining eliminates the delays inherent with annual negotiations of health care and pension contribution. Those delays cost a lot of money. He wants to eliminate the delays. My reading of it is simply that the state is not going to bargain on those issues.

 

I'm not going to get into the "teachers are undercompensated compared to their private sector cohorts" argument again because we've done it on here before and it causes nothing but bad feeling. Its balderdash. Teachers are telling me they should be compared to MBA middle management professionals. That is ludicrous. Teachers work on tax dollars, private sector employees don't. I've already given the perfectly reasonable statistics - Wisconsin benefits package $89,500. National average for non-public secotr, $61,000.

 

Do you have any access or idea as to what the average KY package is? How far away from $89k? Just curious as it has no bearing on the WI or union debate.

Has anyone seen information on where Wisconsins tax rates fall in the scheme of things?

Wisconsin is out of money. There isn't any. The teachers, or at least their union, do not seem to understand that. Its always hard on people when their benefits are cut. However, the states are in dire financial situation on the verge of bankruptcy or collapse. There is no other option. I think Governor Walker has been steadfast and respectful in his statements to the media.

 

The strike is against the law, so I expect many of them to lose their jobs. Its also frivolous, and in the end, fruitless. Many of them were recorded dancing around and stating that it was "just like Egypt" and of course there were numerous "Hitler" signs and similar items. My response to that is that I cannot believe people allow dolts like that to teach their children.

 

The cowardly hiding by the Wisconsin Democratic Senators rather than show up and make an argument needs no further comment. Anyone who defends their actions on here need not converse with me any further.

 

Obama's butt-inski on this also hacks me off. A few days ago, he said over and over "we need to learn to live within our means," and then he comes out and says he supports the strike, and thus supports the breaking of the law, and says that the Governor is "assaulting" civil liberties.

 

There is no deeper story here. There is no hidden agenda. There is no political favortism. Wisconsin is out of money. Its executive has made proposals for very difficult cuts. It was debated. Now its ready for vote. Cowards want to hide from the vote, and those affected want to bay at the moon, but in the end, its unsustainable.

 

Incidentally, the average salary and benefits for a Wisconsin teacher is $89,500.

 

:eek::eek:

Why? It happens in the private sector all the time. If a company cannot afford to pay its employees what they were paid in the past, they cut their benefits. Plain and simple. Its certainly better than being fired. You are not guaranteed a right to work in this country, and benefits are not guaranteed, either. To opine otherwise only echoes my belief that public sector employees maintain this sense of entitlement which is bankrupting the states.

 

I totally disagree with you on the "its not their fault the state is broke" comment.

 

 

Collective Bargaining is a creature of statute. What a statute creates, a statute can take away. It is not a constitutional or moral imperative.

I see states being held more accountable than companies out there.

Perhaps I am incorrect, but my understanding was not that the Governor was proposing eliminating the right to negotiate, just that in this particular scenario the state was simply not going to negotiate. I may be wrong, if so I'm sure someone will correct me. In the end, the protest I think is much less about collective bargaining than it is about the fact of cuts.

 

My understanding is that the proposed legislation is intended to remove collective bargaining rights for the benefit package from public employee unions, except police and fire. The statements I have heard from the spokesmen for the public employee unions is that they know they will have to increase their share of benefit costs, but they want to be able to negotiate the amount of that share. The governor is using this as an excuse to bust a union. It seems to me that the governor is following Rahm's Rule, never let a crisis go to waste. As far as the President's comments, considering what the governor is trying to pull, I thought they were very mild.

And what is your hourly fee? Public sector employees are under compensated when compared to their private sector co-horts with similar education and training. One way to offset that pay discrepancy is with benefits. If you want to do away with the benefits then you must start with the compensation.

 

How big of a tax break did he give to businesses last week? From what I understand, because of legislation passed LAST WEEK the governor created a false emergency and now wants to make changes.

 

How does eliminating collective bargaining to anything to fix the budget? This is in the budget "fix" bill.

Walker didn't create the $3.6 billion short fall, he inherited and is the one in charge of fixing it. This alone won't fix it but it's a good start.

Do you have any access or idea as to what the average KY package is? How far away from $89k? Just curious as it has no bearing on the WI or union debate.

 

I would like to find out myself. My law partner was on the State Bd. of Educ. so I'll see if I can find out.

My understanding is that the proposed legislation is intended to remove collective bargaining rights for the benefit package from public employee unions, except police and fire. The statements I have heard from the spokesmen for the public employee unions is that they know they will have to increase their share of benefit costs, but they want to be able to negotiate the amount of that share. The governor is using this as an excuse to bust a union. It seems to me that the governor is following Rahm's Rule, never let a crisis go to waste. As far as the President's comments, considering what the governor is trying to pull, I thought they were very mild.

That's not the point. The point is it's none of the President's business. This is a state matter and the President needs to worry keep his trap here. Plus with the not so bang up job he is doing maybe needs to focus on the mess that is Washington.

My understanding is that the proposed legislation is intended to remove collective bargaining rights for the benefit package from public employee unions, except police and fire. The statements I have heard from the spokesmen for the public employee unions is that they know they will have to increase their share of benefit costs, but they want to be able to negotiate the amount of that share. The governor is using this as an excuse to bust a union. It seems to me that the governor is following Rahm's Rule, never let a crisis go to waste. As far as the President's comments, considering what the governor is trying to pull, I thought they were very mild.

 

Fair enough. I take no issue with what you say, I just think its time to "bust a union." CBA's are created by statute and can be taken away.

 

Any comment on the behavior of the Democratic Wisconsin Senate?

As far as pay, fringe benefits are generally about 25 - 30 percent of compensation. I have know idea if that fits with Wisconsin. Most teachers have advanced degrees. That pay seems rather modest to me.

Fair enough. I take no issue with what you say, I just think its time to "bust a union." CBA's are created by statute and can be taken away.

 

Any comment on the behavior of the Democratic Wisconsin Senate?

 

While the technique seems rather dramatic, I don't see it as any different than what the Republicans in the US Senate have spent the last two years doing. They have used any trick they could find to obstruct the work of the Senate. I have a much different opinion of unions. I believe that unions created the American middle class. We owe them a lot. Did they abuse their power when they had the chance? Sure did, but not nearly to the extent that employers did before there were unions to protect workers.

That's not the point. The point is it's none of the President's business. This is a state matter and the President needs to worry keep his trap here. Plus with the not so bang up job he is doing maybe needs to focus on the mess that is Washington.

 

All the President did was comment. I don't believe he has taken any action. In that regard he is no different than anyone on this board. He just has more people pay attention when he gives an opinion. As far as the job he is doing, I think he is doing a great job, but that is off topic.

While the technique seems rather dramatic, I don't see it as any different than what the Republicans in the US Senate have spent the last two years doing. They have used any trick they could find to obstruct the work of the Senate. I have a much different opinion of unions. I believe that unions created the American middle class. We owe them a lot. Did they abuse their power when they had the chance? Sure did, but not nearly to the extent that employers did before there were unions to protect workers.

 

All the President did was comment. I don't believe he has taken any action. In that regard he is no different than anyone on this board. He just has more people pay attention when he gives an opinion. As far as the job he is doing, I think he is doing a great job, but that is off topic.

 

Is it impossible for you to call a spade a spade if there is a D next to their name? How does US Senate R have any bareing on this discussion? And if you really believe the President commenting on something is no different then you or I posting on this board then I guess its a waste of time to continue the discussion.

Just heard a blurb that the average Milwaukee public teacher is over $100,000. Salary makes up around $57,000 of it. That's some sweet benefits. They're the ones last year fighting to put viagra back into their prescription plan while the schools were financially strapped.

 

Also reporting that the DNC is very heavily involved in organizing and populating the protests.