Does that explain the presence of Confuscious, Hammurabi, Solon, and others in some of the various artworks? what religious and Biblical image does the "Statue of Freedom" on the Capitol represent?

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

 

I would also add that just because someone evokes the name of God, does not make them Christians or declare their intent to be establishment of a theocracy.

 

Yes there are other symbols. It shows that our ancestors sought knowledge from other cultures. Just because the exteme left wishes to eliminate Christian infuence in present day America, does not erase

the fact that our nation based its founding principles on Christianity.

Yes there are other symbols. It shows that our ancestors sought knowledge from other cultures. Just because the exteme left wishes to eliminate Christian infuence in present day America, does not erase

the fact that our nation based its founding principles on Christianity.

 

Do you think laws should be passed that favor christians over other religions? You are playing the typical christian victim when ever someone brings up religion and the government. Christians are no more import in this country then jews, muslims, or any other religion. All should be treated equally by the government. This country may have been founded by chirstians but like it or not it's just as much a non christians nation as it is yours.

Do you think laws should be passed that favor christians over other religions? You are playing the typical christian victim when ever someone brings up religion and the government. Christians are no more import in this country then jews, muslims, or any other religion. All should be treated equally by the government. This country may have been founded by chirstians but like it or not it's just as much a non christians nation as it is yours.

 

No. I am debating the point of how Christianity played a part in our founding and how it still influences people when they make decisions today.

Even though the majority of our lawmakers are Christians, the laws made in this country have been for all. Can you pick out an occasional exception, I bet you can.

Yet, that does not remove the fact that Christianity has played a pivotal role in our founding, our history and current decision making.

While the discussion of the founding is always interesting (maybe a new thread?), the original question still remains. If you were creating a government, as the Founders did, and you wanted it to be a Christian government, then what would you create and why? Conversely, should Christians be concerned with the matters of government?

 

I think the founding fathers did a pretty good job as far as creating a government in line with Christian ideals. As has been stated on here, they set up a government that meant freedom for all people to worship as they chose. I would say that's in line with the example of Christ who does not force anyone to worship him. I can't come up with a better suggestion with regards to creating a government.

No. I am debating the point of how Christianity played a part in our founding and how it still influences people when they make decisions today.

Even though the majority of our lawmakers are Christians, the laws made in this country have been for all. Can you pick out an occasional exception, I bet you can.

Yet, that does not remove the fact that Christianity has played a pivotal role in our founding, our history and current decision making.

 

I don't think I'd disagree with that, however I don't think it played any greater role than the Enlightenment and Age of Reason did either.

I think the founding fathers did a pretty good job as far as creating a government in line with Christian ideals. As has been stated on here, they set up a government that meant freedom for all people to worship as they chose. I would say that's in line with the example of Christ who does not force anyone to worship him. I can't come up with a better suggestion with regards to creating a government.

 

When you say Christian ideals do you mean the freedom to choose to worship, specifically, or do you mean other things too? Just another followup: do you see government as a tool for Christians to utilize or something more secondary?

I don't think I'd disagree with that, however I don't think it played any greater role than the Enlightenment and Age of Reason did either.

 

Strongly disagree with this. As I stated earlier, you will find more references to the Judeo-Christian heritage when touring the nation's capital than you will any other religion or philosophy. In addition, look at education where the New England Primer was used as a foundational source for schooling in the late 1700's. Children, for example, were taught their ABC's from a section in the Primer that contained overtly Biblical/Christian teachings and values.

 

Look, I acknowledge that not all the founders were Christians. Some of them were Deists and even a few atheists. But from my perspective, Christianity had a greater influence on our founding than did any other religion or philosophy.

When you say Christian ideals do you mean the freedom to choose to worship, specifically, or do you mean other things too? Just another followup: do you see government as a tool for Christians to utilize or something more secondary?

 

Freedom of worship...I think the idea of God-given rights, life and liberty for sure, would also fit with Christian ideal. I'm not saying everything they did was perfect, just that in a broad sense they seemed to get it right, IMO.

 

I'm not sure about the second part. In a general sense, everything should be secondary to a Christian's faith, but I don't think that's quite what you're getting at with the question, so I'm trying to think it through.

 

Interesting thread, Habib.

I don't think I'd disagree with that, however I don't think it played any greater role than the Enlightenment and Age of Reason did either.

 

The Enlightenment was based on the philosophy that all rights were granted by God, not men or a government.

These philosophers were Christians. Although the Church did not always support their beliefs. Some were kicked out of the Church.

The Enlightenment was based on the philosophy that all rights were granted by God, not men or a government.

These philosophers were Christians. Although the Church did not always support their beliefs. Some were kicked out of the Church.

 

That is some serious remodeling of what the "Enlightenment" was all about.

That is some serious remodeling of what the "Enlightenment" was all about.

 

Natural Rights then? God created the world. Natural Rights or God given rights, same thing.

Thomas Jefferson mentioned them. Remember?

That's a good one. Politians and morals in the same sentence.

 

Good point for the most part.

Freedom of worship...I think the idea of God-given rights, life and liberty for sure, would also fit with Christian ideal. I'm not saying everything they did was perfect, just that in a broad sense they seemed to get it right, IMO.

 

I'm not sure about the second part. In a general sense, everything should be secondary to a Christian's faith, but I don't think that's quite what you're getting at with the question, so I'm trying to think it through.

 

Interesting thread, Habib.

 

I don’t think it’s an easy question to answer, for me at least. The logic of the preacher that caused me to start this thread was that society has a duty to live up to “God’s standards” and since there would clearly be people who would balk or fail in trying to do so or who would otherwise use the government as a tool to corrupt society, Christians had a duty to use the government to impose the laws of Christianity. That, in and of itself, would be another debate, as I’m not exactly sure how one makes a society live up to “God’s standards” or what Christian laws are. At any rate, I immediately disagreed with this idea. My thinking was that “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” wasn’t simply Jesus’ tax policy, but was closer to the idea that politics had little utility for Christians as it plays no part in the Christian mission. Not to mention situations like those that Hatz mentioned. But, this would mean Christians have no place in politics. And that didn’t seem to make sense, as certainly religious persecution could hinder the Christian mission. So I’m inclined to agree with those who believe liberty is most in line with Christianity. Beyond that, I’m still not sure.

Natural Rights then? God created the world. Natural Rights or God given rights, same thing.

Thomas Jefferson mentioned them. Remember?

 

That wasn't exactly my point. What I meant was that to say that the Enlightenment was based on a philosophy that rights are granted by God is a simplistic (if not entirely inaccurate) representation of that period in history. If anything, the Enlightenment was about scientific method and cold rationalism attempting to stamp out the universality of assumptions of faith or revealed truth. To claim the Enlightenment as something Christian in nature overlooks men like Thomas Paine and Voltaire who were downright hostile toward organized religion and completely ignores others like Baruch Spinoza who was ethnically (though not religiously) Jewish. In fact, I would submit that the Enlightenment was something closer to anti-Christian based on contemporary philosophers' willingness to take down old institutions and criticize religious ideas.

I don’t think it’s an easy question to answer, for me at least. The logic of the preacher that caused me to start this thread was that society has a duty to live up to “God’s standards” and since there would clearly be people who would balk or fail in trying to do so or who would otherwise use the government as a tool to corrupt society, Christians had a duty to use the government to impose the laws of Christianity. That, in and of itself, would be another debate, as I’m not exactly sure how one makes a society live up to “God’s standards” or what Christian laws are. At any rate, I immediately disagreed with this idea. My thinking was that “give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” wasn’t simply Jesus’ tax policy, but was closer to the idea that politics had little utility for Christians as it plays no part in the Christian mission. Not to mention situations like those that Hatz mentioned. But, this would mean Christians have no place in politics. And that didn’t seem to make sense, as certainly religious persecution could hinder the Christian mission. So I’m inclined to agree with those who believe liberty is most in line with Christianity. Beyond that, I’m still not sure.

 

Jesus never called for Christians to infiltrate or take over any government. This was actually what many (including his apostles) expected of him. In fact, some theorize that Judas betrayed Jesus in an attempt to force his hand in some kind of government overthrow--that perhaps Judas thought if Jesus were arrested, then he would be forced to usher in the "kingdom" of which he spoke so much.

 

The primary calling for Christians is to love God & love others--to win people to Jesus Christ (evangelism). Jesus himself stated that his purpose in coming was "to seek and to save that which was lost." This, then, is what his followers are expected to do first and foremost (see Matthew 28: 18-20). If successful in this mission, Christians would have great influence in the government. But this influence would be one of servant leadership, as opposed to the typical power-grab for which many desire.

 

For all his frequent verbal mishaps, I felt George W. Bush was at his best when he said this, concerning the abortion debate: "The best way to stop abortion is to change the hearts of people." While I am strongly pro-life & pro any kind of legislation that restricts abortion, I acknowledge that the President was 100% right. And I think his words can be applied with what we're talking about here. If you really want to change government, or the condition of America even, you best accomplish this by changing the hearts of people.