If you don't see it, it is simply because you choose not to see it. The term "Generational Welfare" is real and true. You have gerenations of people who see their parents not go to work and collect a check, and they think that's the way life is supposed to be.

 

You obviously have never run any kind of business small or large and employed people. I can't even come close to counting the number of people who are on welfare who know exactly how much money they can make and keep their maximum government money coming in. I have had many come in and quit at some point during the year because they had made "all that they are allowed to make."

 

Two things: 1-generational poverty has very little to do with laziness. Most of the kids in my building (38 out of 43 on free lunch) want something different for themselves. Most all of them who have transportation and are old enough are either working, or aggressively looking for a job. Despite our best efforts, most of them will not go to college it has just never been in their future, and all of them will work all of their lives. You have still not told me anyone who has said I think the government owes this to me and I am entitled to it.

 

#2 - People know what they need to bring in to be able to live. Their is a cutoff where if they make over the threshold they will lose benefits and ultimately lose money. If we paid people a living wage and we knew that 40 hours a week worth of work would provide enough money to live on, people wouldn't quit. But because the market place does provide for a living wage people need the help. If businesses pay 10.00 per hour for 40 hours a week, I bet the need for welfare goes way down.

Two things: 1-generational poverty has very little to do with laziness. Most of the kids in my building (38 out of 43 on free lunch) want something different for themselves. Most all of them who have transportation and are old enough are either working, or aggressively looking for a job. Despite our best efforts, most of them will not go to college it has just never been in their future, and all of them will work all of their lives. You have still not told me anyone who has said I think the government owes this to me and I am entitled to it.

 

#2 - People know what they need to bring in to be able to live. Their is a cutoff where if they make over the threshold they will lose benefits and ultimately lose money. If we paid people a living wage and we knew that 40 hours a week worth of work would provide enough money to live on, people wouldn't quit. But because the market place does provide for a living wage people need the help. If businesses pay 10.00 per hour for 40 hours a week, I bet the need for welfare goes way down.

 

Why don't we make minimum wage $20/hr and eliminate poverty totally?

Push wages up and increase costs, employers will go to more machinery and lay-off workers. Plus increase costs and consumers will buy less and employers will lay-off workers. It is called free enterprise, decisions on based on profits or consumers wallets.

Why don't we make minimum wage $20/hr and eliminate poverty totally?

Push wages up and increase costs, employers will go to more machinery and lay-off workers. Plus increase costs and consumers will buy less and employers will lay-off workers. It is called free enterprise, decisions on based on profits or consumers wallets.

 

This is happening already, except for the pushing wages up. The middle class and the poor have been losing buying power for the last decade. Now people are wondering why people aren't buying the products - well they don't have the money. Have you not been paying attention to what is happening in the economy. Supply side only works if you are employing and paying people enough to buy the goods. Henry Ford had it right - his goal was to produce a car and pay his employees enough to buy the car. He did that and made money.

This is happening already, except for the pushing wages up. The middle class and the poor have been losing buying power for the last decade. Now people are wondering why people aren't buying the products - well they don't have the money. Have you not been paying attention to what is happening in the economy. Supply side only works if you are employing and paying people enough to buy the goods. Henry Ford had it right - his goal was to produce a car and pay his employees enough to buy the car. He did that and made money.

 

Did you any attention to what Congress did with Fannie Mae and Mac and the overspending by both parties? How about the large debt Americans ran up with charge cards? How about the speculation that lead to inflated housing prices? How about environmentalists doing all sorts of whacky things leading to whacky regulations hurting the economy? These are just some items that helped to lead to our economic woes at this time. We have good times and bad times. What too many fail to do is to store up in good times for when bad times roll around. It is all part of the business cycle. A cycle that no well intended government can eliminate.

Did you any attention to what Congress did with Fannie Mae and Mac and the overspending by both parties? How about the large debt Americans ran up with charge cards? How about the speculation that lead to inflated housing prices? How about environmentalists doing all sorts of whacky things leading to whacky regulations hurting the economy? These are just some items that helped to lead to our economic woes at this time. We have good times and bad times. What too many fail to do is to store up in good times for when bad times roll around. It is all part of the business cycle. A cycle that no well intended government can eliminate.

 

When you are living hand to mouth you can't store up.

Here's what I don't get: Why can't there be a middle ground? I have no use for a CEO who makes tens of millions of dollars a year while the company struggles and the workers are asked to "get by" on several years with no raises. My idea of wealth redistribution is for workers to make more than slave wages and CEOs to "get by" on just one yacht. Unfortunately, you right-wing apologists think getting paid a living wage is somehow stealing.

 

I would also argue for more responsibility from investors -- they should be putting their money in companies that engage in proper practices; not feeding those who are already obese and starving those who have no meat on their bones.

Here's what I don't get: Why can't there be a middle ground? I have no use for a CEO who makes tens of millions of dollars a year while the company struggles and the workers are asked to "get by" on several years with no raises. My idea of wealth redistribution is for workers to make more than slave wages and CEOs to "get by" on just one yacht. Unfortunately, you right-wing apologists think getting paid a living wage is somehow stealing.

 

I would also argue for more responsibility from investors -- they should be putting their money in companies that engage in proper practices; not feeding those who are already obese and starving those who have no meat on their bones.

 

I agree with part of what you say. IMO no one is worth that kind of money. Not a CEO, not an athlete, not an actor/actress, not a mucician, no one.

 

Yes there are CEOs that make that much, but it's not as many as people tend to believe it to be. According to Forbes, in 2008 there were 482 CEOs who made over a million. The top person was 192 mil. How many athletes, musicians, etc make a million or more? Didn't Oprah make 300mil?

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/12/lead_bestbosses08_CEO-Compensation_Rank_20.html

I agree with part of what you say. IMO no one is worth that kind of money. Not a CEO, not an athlete, not an actor/actress, not a mucician, no one.

 

Yes there are CEOs that make that much, but it's not as many as people tend to believe it to be. According to Forbes, in 2008 there were 482 CEOs who made over a million. The top person was 192 mil. How many athletes, musicians, etc make a million or more? Didn't Oprah make 300mil?

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/12/lead_bestbosses08_CEO-Compensation_Rank_20.html

 

 

I have to disagree with you guys. If we don't think people in the entertainment industry should make that much, then we should put a stop to the high demand we put forth of them. Musicians make almost all their money by concerts, they deserve that money considering they're the ones that we want and we pay to see them. If we don't think they should get paid that much, don't go to another concert. If you think actors get paid to much, don't go to another movie. Even though that when a certain someone is in a movie, and having them in it is going to make it a money maker, don't you think that they should get paid more? Athletes, well I suggest you stop watching sports, paying for tickets to go see them, ect. All these people are entertainers and are paid based on our demand for them. As for Oprah, well she deserves her money. She is a smart investor just like Warren Buffet. How can you say she is not worth it?

As for CEO's well I personally don't think they get paid, like you said, as much as everyone thinks.

I have to disagree with you guys. If we don't think people in the entertainment industry should make that much, then we should put a stop to the high demand we put forth of them. Musicians make almost all their money by concerts, they deserve that money considering they're the ones that we want and we pay to see them. If we don't think they should get paid that much, don't go to another concert. If you think actors get paid to much, don't go to another movie. Even though that when a certain someone is in a movie, and having them in it is going to make it a money maker, don't you think that they should get paid more? Athletes, well I suggest you stop watching sports, paying for tickets to go see them, ect. All these people are entertainers and are paid based on our demand for them. As for Oprah, well she deserves her money. She is a smart investor just like Warren Buffet. How can you say she is not worth it?

As for CEO's well I personally don't think they get paid, like you said, as much as everyone thinks.

 

In no way do I think that people shouldn't be able to make as much money as they want or as much as they can. I never said they didn't earn it. I have no problem with anyone making as much as they can. I just don't believe anyone is worth that kind of money.

Well... I think every one of you is priceless... and considering what God was willing to pay for each of us... I'm confident I'm in the correct price range. :thumb:

Well... I think every one of you is priceless... and considering what God was willing to pay for each of us... I'm confident I'm in the correct price range. :thumb:

 

That's great and all, but has nothing to do with this discussion. Last I checked, a lot of people pray hard until the cows come home, yet still end up living miserable lives.

Here's what I don't get: Why can't there be a middle ground? I have no use for a CEO who makes tens of millions of dollars a year while the company struggles and the workers are asked to "get by" on several years with no raises. My idea of wealth redistribution is for workers to make more than slave wages and CEOs to "get by" on just one yacht. Unfortunately, you right-wing apologists think getting paid a living wage is somehow stealing.

 

I would also argue for more responsibility from investors -- they should be putting their money in companies that engage in proper practices; not feeding those who are already obese and starving those who have no meat on their bones.

 

 

Totally agree with the premise of your CEO comments, particularly for those who profit handsomely while their companies lose billions and outsource tens of thousands of jobs. The bolded however kind of bothers me. If by "living wage" you refer to the efforts of organized labor, who for decades has demanded more and more compensation, for less and less work; to the point of bankrupting companies and helping drive those jobs overseas, and all the while having many of their heirarchy looting the till, then we differ in opinion.

 

While I in no way would consider myself a "right wing apologist", I do think organized labor in all it's forms, and their blind devotion to one side of the aisle (who in turn butter their bread in exchange for their support); has contributed mightily to the current woes of this country. Can anyone really be surprised that receiving more & more for less & less work is coming back to haunt them--It's simply basic math!! Greed exists on both sides to be sure, but now even the government and educational monsters find themselves in an unsustainable state, and can only be saved by more government handouts--Which in themselves are unsustainable!! Tough decisions ahead!!

Who knew "living wage" was such a politically charged term? I'm in no union. I am simply more worried about people such as myself -- working people who struggle to pay their bills and save for retirement while their paychecks are worth less and less, as well as those not fortunate enough to have a job -- than those poor, suffering millionaires who whine about their tax burden rather than being thankful for living in a society that afforded them such good fortune.

Who knew "living wage" was such a politically charged term? I'm in no union. I am simply more worried about people such as myself -- working people who struggle to pay their bills and save for retirement while their paychecks are worth less and less, as well as those not fortunate enough to have a job -- than those poor, suffering millionaires who whine about their tax burden rather than being thankful for living in a society that afforded them such good fortune.

 

 

Jim, far from a "whining millionaire" --I'm in the same boat as you, trying to pay the bills, save for retirement and putting a couple of kids through college--I'm just probably placing the blame elsewhere vs. falling for the phony "class warfare" argument the left has been pedaling for 80 years!! Consider myself a conservative that supports a smaller government, a free market system, help for our struggling companies via less regulation, a flat tax, etc.; and I'm not looking for Washington to solve many of my problems, but rather just get the heck out of the way!!

That's great and all, but has nothing to do with this discussion. Last I checked, a lot of people pray hard until the cows come home, yet still end up living miserable lives.

 

God helps those who help themselves, we're going in circles here. I could just as easily tell the joke about the woman that begs god to win the lottery but fails to buy a lottery ticket, there are alot of people out their like that; willing to put in the work to get ahead in life but still don't recognize when they miss the smallest of details that will greatly help them get ahead. I honestly feel like alot of Americans anymore live in "tv land" where they think if they live right for the most part and do what should help their situation(based completely on hollywood happy ending stories)...... atleast for the most part, then it will all work out, and unfortunately that's just not the case.