There was a recent article in the WSJ saying that the facts do not quite support this commonly-held belief.

 

I'll try to find it.

 

Can't find it. It did say that it did have an impact in early grades in poor schools. Overall, the generalizations made by the STAR project in TN have not shown to be true overall.

 

Obviously, there are exceptions to this rule.

Can't find it. It did say that it did have an impact in early grades in poor schools. Overall, the generalizations made by the STAR project in TN have not shown to be true overall.

 

Obviously, there are exceptions to this rule.

 

Small communities have proven to be successful. 20000 students schools with 30 per class are usually not as successful as schools with 1000 or less and 20-25 per class. Once you get below 20 the results don't change so much. However, if it works for one like in TBandGs story, the goal should be to try to get there.

There was a recent article in the WSJ saying that the facts do not quite support this commonly-held belief.

 

I'll try to find it.

 

I wouldn't mind to read it , but articles can make statistics say a lot of things. I'll stick with my belief that a teacher can do a LOT more with 15-20 students than he/she can with 30-35. Even schools who have kids struggling in reading in classes with 30+ kids hire teaching aids to have "small group" reading time.

I'd bet if the WSJ did an article on productivity of the number of educational administrators in education they'd find enough money to cut every class in the commonwealth in half and then they'd have some real numbers to work with.

I wouldn't mind to read it , but articles can make statistics say a lot of things. I'll stick with my belief that a teacher can do a LOT more with 15-20 students than he/she can with 30-35. Even schools who have kids struggling in reading in classes with 30+ kids hire teaching aids to have "small group" reading time.

I'd bet if the WSJ did an article on productivity of the number of educational administrators in education they'd find enough money to cut every class in the commonwealth in half and then they'd have some real numbers to work with.

 

Still can't find it. K was the primary grade level that benefited from a small class size WITH an experienced teacher. Small classes later on didn't have the same impact.

I disagree with #5. I know many single-parent families whose children do better in school than 2 parent families. I think that it's about the amount of importance the parent(s) place on education first and foremost. I've seen kids from both single and two-parent families who do not apply themselves in school because their parents don't place education as a top priority. Think about it. How many parents spend time complaining about the amount of homework their kids have? How many claim it intrudes on the kids' time to be a kid? What about the parents who complain about how school and activities impede upon their own plans? To me, the number one problem is that as a

society, we take education for granted. That's what happens when it's free.

Rockmom's idea can be verified with a study that showed the most reliable indicator for success and grades in school, is most directly in relationship to expectations in the home. If a household just wants you to get by, that's what happens, if only A's are acceptable kids tend to hit that bar. The study showed this to be more reliable than race, income level,or any other factor

In the book " The Millionaire Next Door", several millionaires were studied. 30 characteristics were studied. Grades in school finished 30 out of 30. Dead last! Surprisingly the number one trait, honesty. It said the common train of thought was those who lie, cheat become millionaires. That can be true, but the very tactic that got them there, is the very thing that eventually brings them down.

In the book " The Millionaire Next Door", several millionaires were studied. 30 characteristics were studied. Grades in school finished 30 out of 30.

 

There is a huge difference in getting good grades and getting a good education. I've had A students who can't tell right from left, while having C students that are the smartest kid in the room. Many times C students are interesting in working on non-classroom things (those become the inventions we all later use), while the A students only want to plow through the homework and get the grade, often retaining little to none of what has been studied.

An issue I see is "teaching the test" instead of teaching basics.

 

It's the equivalent to teaching a basketball team how the break a 2-2-1 full court press when they don't know how to dribble or pass the ball.

Your #3 should be #1 IMO and all the funding the schools can get won't cure parent accountability unless those funds are used to somehow get those parents involved with their kids education.

 

:thumb:

Rockmom's idea can be verified with a study that showed the most reliable indicator for success and grades in school, is most directly in relationship to expectations in the home. If a household just wants you to get by, that's what happens, if only A's are acceptable kids tend to hit that bar. The study showed this to be more reliable than race, income level,or any other factor

 

That's fine, but we have to teach the non-future millionaires, too, and for many of them, what they learn in school and the grades they make are important for their future success.

You may have replied to wrong quote, this particular study had nothing to do with millionaires. Indicator just like most things in life, we tend to reach what we really shoot for. The best teacher in world can change only a few of those who are satisfied with just getting by.

You may have replied to wrong quote, this particular study had nothing to do with millionaires. Indicator just like most things in life, we tend to reach what we really shoot for. The best teacher in world can change only a few of those who are satisfied with just getting by.

 

I did reply to the wrong quote. I should have quoted your other quote, which was about the millionaire's book. As to your last sentence, your opinion is noted, but I know that you are wrong. Teachers can significantly influence what their students become.

Not what I said. Teachers change lives every day. Thank goodness they do. I have had family in the education industry. Everyone on this board, has been favorably influenced by a person who went beyond the norm. But the fact remains, the biggest factor in predicting grades remains what is expected in that kids home. Norman Vincent Peale had a great story about a professor in college, who had a class go to an inner city school I believe in Baltimore, and interview at risk kids for a project. A few years later he got an idea to see what became of those kids. Extensive methods were used to trace them down, fully expecting to find them in prisons, dead, on drugs. To his surprise, almost every kid had attended college, or made a successful life. His research found one common denominator, they had all been influenced by a teacher who had that passion, that drive that her kids were going to make it. Absolutely teachers make the difference, not 585 million dollar facilities, not "testing", not technology, but good ole fashioned caring individuals.

5 failures of Kentucky Schools

 

1. Legislature - lack of funding

2. Teacher accountability

3. Parent accountability

4. See Number 1

5. Schools boards and site base not being effective.

 

a common yet simplistic view of the failure of not just our commonwealth's school system but rather an overall collapse nationwide. The root cause is the common denominator in human life; Belief in God (i.e. Jesus Christ and all He teaches about life and how to live) From Christ we as people learn good/evil, pride/humility, selfishness/selflessness, putting faith in the uncertainty of riches, honest/deceitfullness, Etc.. All the traits of Christ, if lived out with His help, would relieve all of the ailments of our corrupted society. All the external tangible failures of society (ie. schools) can be attributed to our faith. Our country was founded by God fearing christians. Our country has been so blessed by God and we ignore Him. How many sing His praises daily? Today, our churches are b and b's or reception halls. We as adults have a responsibility to teach our children first and foremost about Jesus and all He represents. In addtion to live out our faith daily with His help. When our society grasps this, change will occur. Until then, drugs, crime,dysfunction, greed, deceit, etc. will abound. So you see, with an application of faith in our lives through Christ Jesus, the funding would be there, the teacher's would be accountable, parents would respect the awesome responsibility of rearing one of God's very own, and school boards would work together to accomplish things with proper motives.

a common yet simplistic view of the failure of not just our commonwealth's school system but rather an overall collapse nationwide. The root cause is the common denominator in human life; Belief in God (i.e. Jesus Christ and all He teaches about life and how to live) From Christ we as people learn good/evil' date=' pride/humility, selfishness/selflessness, putting faith in the uncertainty of riches, honest/deceitfullness, Etc.. All the traits of Christ, if lived out with His help, would relieve all of the ailments of our corrupted society. All the external tangible failures of society (ie. schools) can be attributed to our faith. Our country was founded by God fearing christians. Our country has been so blessed by God and we ignore Him. How many sing His praises daily? Today, our churches are b and b's or reception halls. We as adults have a responsibility to teach our children first and foremost about Jesus and all He represents. In addtion to live out our faith daily with His help. When our society grasps this, change will occur. Until then, drugs, crime,dysfunction, greed, deceit, etc. will abound. So you see, with an application of faith in our lives through Christ Jesus, the funding would be there, the teacher's would be accountable, parents would respect the awesome responsibility of rearing one of God's very own, and school boards would work together to accomplish things with proper motives.[/quote']

 

 

Zero relevance to the issue at hand.