August 3, 201016 yr Let’s look as at a realistic case study. A farmer in Iowa begins with a small farm in 1960, and begins a steady process of growing produce, fighting the elements, raising a family and gradually increasing his land holdings to provide added revenue possibilities. Over time he accumulates 600 acres of average Iowa corn growing farmland. In 1996 it costs him $1.19 a bushel in seed, equipment, fuel, pesticides, irrigation and other expenses to produce a bushel of corn valued at $2.71 for a net margin of $1.52 per acre. This does not include the cost of the land he is growing the corn on and the home he is raising his family in. He averages 173 bushels per acre. At the end of the year, it costs him $123,522 to grow 600 acres of corn. His gross sales on the corn are $281,298 producing a net margin of $158,776. From this, he pays for his land, his house and other expenses not directly included in the process of growing corn, and provides shares to his now grown kids for helping raise, tend and harvest the crop… all of which is taxed as INCOME by the federal, state and local governments. In November 2010, this old farmer has a sudden and unanticipated stroke. He has not set up a family trust, and languishes in a near coma. The farmer’s kids are told that if they pull the plug and allow their father to expire before the end of 2010, their tax bite on his estate would be much less than if he passed away after January 2011. Being good people, they won’t hear of it. The farmer lingers for two and a half months before passing away in February 2011, leaving his grown kids 600 acres valued at $2,500 per, plus a nice house, barns, John Deere equipment, irrigation systems, etc. The farmer’s estate is modestly valued at $2,750,000. Under the new estate tax repeal, only the first $1 million is exempted, leaving $1,750,000 to be taxed at 55%. Being farmers themselves, dependent upon what their farm can generate, the farmer’s children are faced with a tax debt of $962,500 due immediately just to keep the family farm. Whether you will admit that this fits your mental image of “soaking the rich” or not, this is reality for this family and others just like them. This is the antithesis of the “American Dream”. If this scenario makes you feel righteous, so be it. But please don’t mistake for one minute that the truly wealthy are not basking in the comfort of great generational wealth protected from our greedy little hands in the form of charitable remainder trusts and other layers of security from punitive taxation. So who really has the last laugh? Who really is at fault for killing jobs and the middle class? And therein lies the problem.
August 3, 201016 yr I agree, people who are middle and lower class that continue to vote for Republicans on soical issues that they do nothing about will continue to be fleeced. Let's review: conservatives want to see everyone's tax rates lowered. (which produces more revenue to the gov't.) Yup, sounds like a "fleecing" to me....
August 3, 201016 yr http://www.cbpp.org/files/estatetaxmyths.pdf See myths 3-4. I actually read the entirety of your link. The numbers referenced are at 2009 levels which allow a $3.5 million baseline exemption. The 2011 level drops this exemption to $1 million. I realize this may sound like a lot of money to someone living in a trailer and shopping with food stamps, but it is nothing in relation to the true wealth you seek to siphon… and will never touch under current tax laws… EVER. Therefore, my proposed scenario is not a "myth" to far more families, farms and small businesses than your report includes. Even so, are you suggesting that it's okay to rape and pillage the 80 small businesses and farm estates your report admits will be hit at the much more friendly 2009 levels? Envy and greed are truly ugly human traits.
August 3, 201016 yr A lot of the rich are opting for this... http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0ae8415c-9e5e-11df-a5a4-00144feab49a.html The link dosen't seem to work right but it's an article from the Drudge Report about wealthy Americans giving up their citizenship because of taxes..
August 3, 201016 yr I actually read the entirety of your link. The numbers referenced are at 2009 levels which allow a $3.5 million baseline exemption. The 2011 level drops this exemption to $1 million. I realize this may sound like a lot of money to someone living in a trailer and shopping with food stamps, but it is nothing in relation to the true wealth you seek to siphon… and will never touch under current tax laws… EVER. Therefore, my proposed scenario is not a "myth" to far more families, farms and small businesses than your report includes. Even so, are you suggesting that it's okay to rape and pillage the 80 small businesses and farm estates your report admits will be hit at the much more friendly 2009 levels? Envy and greed are truly ugly human traits. Seeking fairness in equality in economic oppurtunity is now envy and greed. I love how you will defend 80 small businesses and farms but have no problem with millions of American's in the lower and middle class shouldering the burden's of the deficit created from cutting taxes in war time. Also someone explain to me how the supply side is working??? If as the article I refrenced pointed out the upper 1% are doing very well shouldn't that be trickling down and creating more jobs and innovations. Shouldn't they be spending, building, buying, employing, creating and opening businesses like they are going out of style? If the economic theory that most of you hold as holy really worked then the economy should be booming with the wealthy doing so well. Why is it not? What is happening?
August 3, 201016 yr Seeking fairness in equality in economic oppurtunity is now envy and greed. I love how you will defend 80 small businesses and farms but have no problem with millions of American's in the lower and middle class shouldering the burden's of the deficit created from cutting taxes in war time. Also someone explain to me how the supply side is working??? If as the article I refrenced pointed out the upper 1% are doing very well shouldn't that be trickling down and creating more jobs and innovations. Shouldn't they be spending, building, buying, employing, creating and opening businesses like they are going out of style? If the economic theory that most of you hold as holy really worked then the economy should be booming with the wealthy doing so well. Why is it not? What is happening? Equality of opportunity is one thing... attempting to ensure equal outcomes regardless of time, talent and effort is entirely something else. When we are inflating taxes that punish all of us mid-range achievers, effectively impairing our ability to grow our revenues, we are doing precisely what you claim to be against. You just don't get it... and apparently don't want to understand. All the taxes in the world, under our current system are not going to "soak the rich". The rich are insulated in ways you do not comprehend, and apparently I am incapable of explaining to you. We are however; very effectively encouraging the rich to pull back and hunker down with their wealth rather than investing it and taking risk that could grow it, precisely because of our idiotic "class based" tax policies.
August 3, 201016 yr It does not produce more revenue to the government. Does not, does not, does not.
August 3, 201016 yr Seeking fairness in equality in economic oppurtunity is now envy and greed. I love how you will defend 80 small businesses and farms but have no problem with millions of American's in the lower and middle class shouldering the burden's of the deficit created from cutting taxes in war time. Also someone explain to me how the supply side is working??? If as the article I refrenced pointed out the upper 1% are doing very well shouldn't that be trickling down and creating more jobs and innovations. Shouldn't they be spending, building, buying, employing, creating and opening businesses like they are going out of style? If the economic theory that most of you hold as holy really worked then the economy should be booming with the wealthy doing so well. Why is it not? What is happening? Ignoring the fact that there are other unique factors in play in this economy, many wealthy individuals are waiting to see what this administration does on taxes and what the stock market does. It used to be "make as much as you can", now it's "hold onto what you have". Don't think for a minute that the wealthy have recovered from being burned by the market. Even though they still have a lot, they were hit like everyone else by the stock market drop and it's made them as gun shy as everyone else.
August 3, 201016 yr A lot of the rich are opting for this... http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0ae8415c-9e5e-11df-a5a4-00144feab49a.html The link dosen't seem to work right but it's an article from the Drudge Report about wealthy Americans giving up their citizenship because of taxes.. A LOT????
August 3, 201016 yr Why have they been waiting so long? Why were they not creating jobs in 2007? Edited August 3, 201016 yr by acemona hideous grammar
August 3, 201016 yr Equality of opportunity is one thing... attempting to ensure equal outcomes regardless of time, talent and effort is entirely something else. When we are inflating taxes that punish all of us mid-range achievers, effectively impairing our ability to grow our revenues, we are doing precisely what you claim to be against. You just don't get it... and apparently don't want to understand. All the taxes in the world, under our current system are not going to "soak the rich". The rich are insulated in ways you do not comprehend, and apparently I am incapable of explaining to you. We are however; very effectively encouraging the rich to pull back and hunker down with their wealth rather than investing it and taking risk that could grow it, precisely because of our idiotic "class based" tax policies. I do get it, supply side economics is a falicy and the proposal on the table is to extend the cuts for us mid-range acheivers thus not impairing our ability to grow our revenues. Also, the current tax environment as been in place since 2002. Have they been hunkering down with thier wealth for 8 years now? If so why have wages for mid-low income folks been stagnant for 30 years? The wealthy hoard thier wealth and don't reivest in anything that helps the economy grow and produce jobs, thus the mythology of trickle down is bunk.
August 3, 201016 yr It does not produce more revenue to the government. Does not, does not, does not. Does, does, does. Look at revenue from 2003 to 2007 and tell me the cuts not only increased revenue but increased it by 44% in 4 years to a record high in 2007.
August 3, 201016 yr I do get it, supply side economics is a falicy and the proposal on the table is to extend the cuts for us mid-range acheivers thus not impairing our ability to grow our revenues. Also, the current tax environment as been in place since 2002. Have they been hunkering down with thier wealth for 8 years now? If so why have wages for mid-low income folks been stagnant for 30 years? The wealthy hoard thier wealth and don't reivest in anything that helps the economy grow and produce jobs, thus the mythology of trickle down is bunk. Just how do you plan on growing you revenue? How many jobs are you going to create with all that revenue?
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.