Excellent observation... sometimes when you stand so close to something you forget to see it.

 

It's not as though there is a predetermined pool of revenue that must be divided fairly... and if a stingy rich guy gloms onto more than his fair share, there's less for someone else. Under this scenario, it would make sense to try to divide funds more equitably.

 

There is no lid on our potential. There is no fixed limit on what we may generate. Under this REAL WORLD scenario, a rising tide lifts all the boats in the bay. The more we loosen the shackles on working capital, invention, creativity and incentive, the more revenue that will be produced... resulting in greater tax generation for our government... with less pain all the way around.

 

I've never understood the motivation to pull down the achievers instead of trying to motivate and lift up the poor.

 

It's the best of quality AND quantiity. :thumb:

 

 

Oh for the love of God! Free the Rich! Free the Rich! Hopefully some day there will be a president that will emancipate you! :lol:

Oh for the love of God! Free the Rich! Free the Rich! Hopefully some day there will be a president that will emancipate you! :lol:

I don't want to get too personal, but it would be worth considering whether our direct employment would be possible without the patronage of the financially secure. If this is the case for you, as it is for me, your statement seems somewhat counterproductive to your own financial security and independence. :thumb:

 

On a side note, I wish I had the kind of bank account you apparently think I have... :lol:

 

If you had any idea of my humble beginnings, not to mention my humble present, you would understand this is a matter of genuine principle and of legitimate practicality for me.

 

I don't know about your church and faith, but I was taught that you don't improve your life by pulling another's down. The poor don't advance by envying and resenting the wealthy. The wealthy's blessings will be limited to this time and place if they ignore or trample on the needs of the poor.

 

I'm 100% for compassion and helping one another. I just don't think that politicians fueling strife between our people for the greedy and self-serving purpose of scaring up enough votes to keep them in power is the leadership or pseudo-compassion we need.

 

I don't believe that the deliberate generation, expansion and perpetuation of a "dependent class" that must have government handouts is humane, noble, virtuous or good in any way.

 

This is not life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but a corruption and theft of personal dignity... the enabling of perpetual adolescence for far too many Americans who think they need trumped up benefactors in D.C. to do for them.

 

Come on Mom... are these the values you taught your own children? Don't work hard. Don't try to achieve. Don't do everything you can to better your education, talents and skills. Don't get back up when you get knocked down. Don't try to do for yourself. Trust the government to take take care of you.

 

I know better... and you do to.

 

If these are not the values you taught your own children (for reasons we both understand) how is it truly compassionate to teach them to anyone else?

Excellent observation... sometimes when you stand so close to something you forget to see it.

 

It's not as though there is a predetermined pool of revenue that must be divided fairly... and if a stingy rich guy gloms onto more than his fair share, there's less for someone else. Under this scenario, it would make sense to try to divide funds more equitably.

 

There is no lid on our potential. There is no fixed limit on what we may generate. Under this REAL WORLD scenario, a rising tide lifts all the boats in the bay. The more we loosen the shackles on working capital, invention, creativity and incentive, the more revenue that will be produced... resulting in greater tax generation for our government... with less pain all the way around.

 

I've never understood the motivation to pull down the achievers instead of trying to motivate and lift up the poor.

 

It's the best of quality AND quantiity. :thumb:

 

I've heard that old saw, but I've never been totally convinced. It's easy to believe when you own a fleet of yachts. But when all you have is a dinghy full of holes, not so much.

I've heard that old saw, but I've never been totally convinced. It's easy to believe when you own a fleet of yachts. But when all you have is a dinghy full of holes, not so much.

Well, as someone who grew up fishing from the bank, all I can say is I looked forward to the day I could get my hands on my own boat... even a tiny one. I've spent years plugging holes and rowing from yacht to yacht providing whatever services I could to upgrade to a hole-less dinghy with a motor. I'm still puttering between yachts and complaining about the cost of fuel... but one thing I know for sure is if there are no yachts... I will ultimately have to go back to a leaky dinghy with oars, and eventually back to fishing from the bank. I am very happy to share the bay with yachts, instead of a bay full of nothing but dinghys... (...and all of those painted the same color so no one will be too jealous...) :thumb:

I don't want to get too personal, but it would be worth considering whether our direct employment would be possible without the patronage of the financially secure. If this is the case for you, as it is for me, your statement seems somewhat counterproductive to your own financial security and independence. :thumb:

 

On a side note, I wish I had the kind of bank account you apparently think I have... :lol:

 

If you had any idea of my humble beginnings, not to mention my humble present, you would understand this is a matter of genuine principle and of legitimate practicality for me.

 

I don't know about your church and faith, but I was taught that you don't improve your life by pulling another's down. The poor don't advance by envying and resenting the wealthy. The wealthy's blessings will be limited to this time and place if they ignore or trample on the needs of the poor.

 

I'm 100% for compassion and helping one another. I just don't think that politicians fueling strife between our people for the greedy and self-serving purpose of scaring up enough votes to keep them in power is the leadership or pseudo-compassion we need.

 

I don't believe that the deliberate generation, expansion and perpetuation of a "dependent class" that must have government handouts is humane, noble, virtuous or good in any way.

 

This is not life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but a corruption and theft of personal dignity... the enabling of perpetual adolescence for far too many Americans who think they need trumped up benefactors in D.C. to do for them.

 

Come on Mom... are these the values you taught your own children? Don't work hard. Don't try to achieve. Don't do everything you can to better your education, talents and skills. Don't get back up when you get knocked down. Don't try to do for yourself. Trust the government to take take care of you.

 

I know better... and you do to.

 

If these are not the values you taught your own children (for reasons we both understand) how is it truly compassionate to teach them to anyone else?

 

Look, it's not that I 100% disagree with the premise you're trying to impart. I don't. I actually can see the principle you're illustrating and agree with much of what you're saying. But the way you present it, it's as if the wealthy are downtrodden, maligned, and downright "misunderstood". It's so sweepingly generalized, though. And frankly, that's what makes me dig in my heals and argue with you (and others). It's the "the blood sucking poor people who are lazy and just want to be leaches" vs. "the villified and wrongly accused wealthy benefactors" portrayal.

Look, it's not that I 100% disagree with the premise you're trying to impart. I don't. I actually can see the principle you're illustrating and agree with much of what you're saying. But the way you present it, it's as if the wealthy are downtrodden, maligned, and downright "misunderstood". It's so sweepingly generalized, though. And frankly, that's what makes me dig in my heals and argue with you (and others). It's the "the blood sucking poor people who are lazy and just want to be leaches" vs. "the villified and wrongly accused wealthy benefactors" portrayal.

A minority is a minority, and discrimination is discrimination... regardless of the sum of our individual bank accounts.

 

True justice is blind.

 

Greed, avarice, envy and jealousy are still sins in my Bible. The fueling of these disgusting traits by politicians is purely evil IMO.

 

You are reading far more into my words than they actually communicate. I have never asserted that the wealthy are downtrodden. I am 100% certain they are maligned in many ways. I am not defending them per se... other than to say that we are far better off with them and encouraging others to become wealthy, than we are to constantly try to pull them down and ensure others cannot become wealthy too.

 

The "misunderstanding" I speak of is OUR (collective non-super wealthy) lack of understanding about how all the income taxes in the world cannot touch EXISTING WEALTH protected by Trusts. By jacking income taxes on the so-called rich, we are only limiting the ability of those achieving success to build and maintain wealth themselves. The already rich merely sniff at such ideas. Why do you think so many uber-wealthy are liberals and democrats. THEY KNOW we will never diminish their holdings... but we can do a fine job of keeping the "new money" riff-raff out of their social circles.

 

Come on Mom... Do you treat your customers with disrespect and accuse them of not paying their fair share... or do you provide them with great service and thank them profusely for their patronage?

 

Which is going to encourage them to return and happily "invest" more in your company?

 

This ain't rocket surgery, and I know you're too smart to fall for the "us vs. them" garbage. :thumb:

There always has been the very rich and the very poor. Even the communist countries that were going tp provide equality to everyone, the ruling class and athletes were always treated better. Our system has provided a chance for a large middle class. Even our poor are better off than most people in the world. And everyone has the chance to move up with hard work and determination. Not everyone may become wealthy, but be able to support theirselves. It will never be easy, but far more attainable in our system than any other. One of my college professors stated, "Our system may not be perfect, but it is the best the world has to offer."

For those who want to tax the rich more and more, I say drop your envy and sit back and watch some reruns of the Rich and Famous.

A minority is a minority, and discrimination is discrimination... regardless of the sum of our individual bank accounts.

 

True justice is blind.

Greed, avarice, envy and jealousy are still sins in my Bible. The fueling of these disgusting traits by politicians is purely evil IMO.

 

You are reading far more into my words than they actually communicate. I have never asserted that the wealthy are downtrodden. I am 100% certain they are maligned in many ways. I am not defending them per se... other than to say that we are far better off with them and encouraging others to become wealthy, than we are to constantly try to pull them down and ensure others cannot become wealthy too.

 

The "misunderstanding" I speak of is OUR (collective non-super wealthy) lack of understanding about how all the income taxes in the world cannot touch EXISTING WEALTH protected by Trusts. By jacking income taxes on the so-called rich, we are only limiting the ability of those achieving success to build and maintain wealth themselves. The already rich merely sniff at such ideas. Why do you think so many uber-wealthy are liberals and democrats. THEY KNOW we will never diminish their holdings... but we can do a fine job of keeping the "new money" riff-raff out of their social circles.

 

Come on Mom... Do you treat your customers with disrespect and accuse them of not paying their fair share... or do you provide them with great service and thank them profusely for their patronage?

 

Which is going to encourage them to return and happily "invest" more in your company?

 

This ain't rocket surgery, and I know you're too smart to fall for the "us vs. them" garbage. :thumb:

 

Surely you are not talking about TRUE JUSTICE - I am thinking TRUE JUSTICE would be very Jesus like and Jesus came to take care of the poor. You are wanting Fairness or equality, not JUSTICE

Surely you are not talking about TRUE JUSTICE - I am thinking TRUE JUSTICE would be very Jesus like and Jesus came to take care of the poor. You are wanting Fairness or equality, not JUSTICE

Precisely why it is not some government clown's job to attempt to level the playing field by threat of imprisonment. Charity is up to each one of us, as our own conscience and convictions dictate. Taxes and welfare aren't charity. They are used by flawed humans to excercise power and control. You and I may never agree on this... I'm okay with that.

Well, as someone who grew up fishing from the bank, all I can say is I looked forward to the day I could get my hands on my own boat... even a tiny one. I've spent years plugging holes and rowing from yacht to yacht providing whatever services I could to upgrade to a hole-less dinghy with a motor. I'm still puttering between yachts and complaining about the cost of fuel... but one thing I know for sure is if there are no yachts... I will ultimately have to go back to a leaky dinghy with oars, and eventually back to fishing from the bank. I am very happy to share the bay with yachts, instead of a bay full of nothing but dinghys... (...and all of those painted the same color so no one will be too jealous...) :thumb:

 

You seem to have much more faith in voodoo - I mean supply-side - economics than I.

 

Bueller? Bueller?

Precisely why it is not some government clown's job to attempt to level the playing field by threat of imprisonment. Charity is up to each one of us, as our own conscience and convictions dictate. Taxes and welfare aren't charity. They are used by flawed humans to excercise power and control. You and I may never agree on this... I'm okay with that.

 

Charity and justice are NOT the same things. The Civil Rights Act is a perfect example of the government bringing JUSTICE to a group of people. While charity is often left up to the individual TRUE JUSTICE can sometimes ONLY be achieved through the government.

 

C'mon - "level the playing field by threat of imprisonment" is just a silly statement.

Just curious. What does everyone think the percentage taxes that should be paid for a family of 4 with the following income:

 

0-100,000

100K-300K

300K-1M

1M-5M

>5M

Just curious. What does everyone think the percentage taxes that should be paid for a family of 4 with the following income:

 

0-100,000

100K-300K

300K-1M

1M-5M

>5M

 

That 0-100,000 category is pretty broad.

Just curious. What does everyone think the percentage taxes that should be paid for a family of 4 with the following income:

 

0-100,000

100K-300K

300K-1M

1M-5M

>5M

 

25

30

35

40

45

 

Heck, I don't know.

Just curious. What does everyone think the percentage taxes that should be paid for a family of 4 with the following income:

 

0-100,000

100K-300K

300K-1M

1M-5M

>5M

 

For the family whose income is actually zero - let me be the first to propose a tax rate of 100 percent.