Equality of opportunity is one thing... attempting to ensure equal outcomes regardless of time, talent and effort is entirely something else.

 

When we are inflating taxes that punish all of us mid-range achievers, effectively impairing our ability to grow our revenues, we are doing precisely what you claim to be against.

 

You just don't get it... and apparently don't want to understand. All the taxes in the world, under our current system are not going to "soak the rich". The rich are insulated in ways you do not comprehend, and apparently I am incapable of explaining to you. We are however; very effectively encouraging the rich to pull back and hunker down with their wealth rather than investing it and taking risk that could grow it, precisely because of our idiotic "class based" tax policies.

 

:thumb: You nailed it, but some people just don't want to believe. I have several wealthy clients who have created wealth not only for themselves but many of their employees. Most of them are hunkering down. Two have flat out told me they're through taking the risks required to continue to grow their companies. They no longer want to deal with the uncertainty of the tax and healthcare laws.

:thumb: You nailed it, but some people just don't want to believe. I have several wealthy clients who have created wealth not only for themselves but many of their employees. Most of them are hunkering down. Two have flat out told me they're through taking the risks required to continue to grow their companies. They no longer want to deal with the uncertainty of the tax and healthcare laws.

Yeah but you only offer firsthand accounts from face-to-face discussions with actual "wealthy" people.

 

Unless "Think Progress" "The Daily Kos" "Pravda" or some other acceptable media outlet says it, you're just ignorant, selfish and greedy... like me I guess. :idunno:

Just how do you plan on growing you revenue? How many jobs are you going to create with all that revenue?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

 

I would not be opposed at all to a tax cut for those that actually re-invested, opened businesses and created jobs. I just don't think it makes sense (and feel the evidence is their to support) to do so in the hopes that they will.

:thumb: You nailed it, but some people just don't want to believe. I have several wealthy clients who have created wealth not only for themselves but many of their employees. Most of them are hunkering down. Two have flat out told me they're through taking the risks required to continue to grow their companies. They no longer want to deal with the uncertainty of the tax and healthcare laws.

 

Yeah but you only offer firsthand accounts from face-to-face discussions with actual "wealthy" people.

 

Unless "Think Progress" "The Daily Kos" "Pravda" or some other acceptable media outlet says it, you're just ignorant, selfish and greedy... like me I guess. :idunno:

 

Well I talk to and deal with individuals and small to moderate business owners every day. They are cutting back, freezing hiring, combining jobs and not replacing exiting employees, laying off, furloughing employees, enforcing pay reductions. My answer is why, if I was wealthy wouldn't this be the time to reinvest with a skilled and motivated work force looking daily, real estate in a definate buyers market. It's clear they've made money and are thriving, why aren't they supplying the demand?

On a side note, I haven't suggested anyone was ignorant although you've insisted that I don't have the ability to understand your argument. I do understand I just vehemently disagree.

I do get it, supply side economics is a falicy and the proposal on the table is to extend the cuts for us mid-range acheivers thus not impairing our ability to grow our revenues. Also, the current tax environment as been in place since 2002. Have they been hunkering down with thier wealth for 8 years now? If so why have wages for mid-low income folks been stagnant for 30 years? The wealthy hoard thier wealth and don't reivest in anything that helps the economy grow and produce jobs, thus the mythology of trickle down is bunk.

I don't know how many jobs are provided by the construction of a yacht, or a corporate jet aircraft, or a luxury condo at a resort, or a luxury automobile, or high end apparel, or, or or... I don't know how many jobs are provided by staffing a yacht, crewing a corporate jet, fueling it, maintaining it, or in restaurants catering to the well-heeled, etc.... yeah, you're probably right, the wealthy don't spread enough of their loot around and don't generate jobs at all.

 

I do believe if I were to ask the hobo at the street corner for a job, he might (if he were in a good mood) hand be a piece of cardboard and a burned stick with a charcoal end to make my own sign to stand on the opposite corner and ask for handouts with him... if I give him a cut of the action.

 

I may just have to quit my job made possible by private industry and wealthy folks, and get on the righteous gubmint gravy train... :dancingpa

Well I talk to and deal with individuals and small to moderate business owners every day. They are cutting back, freezing hiring, combining jobs and not replacing exiting employees, laying off, furloughing employees, enforcing pay reductions. My answer is why, if I was wealthy wouldn't this be the time to reinvest with a skilled and motivated work force looking daily, real estate in a definate buyers market. It's clear they've made money and are thriving, why aren't they supplying the demand?

On a side note, I haven't suggested anyone was ignorant although you've insisted that I don't have the ability to understand your argument. I do understand I just vehemently disagree.

I am not in any way suggesting that you alone are ignorant or too dull to comprehend... but that we (the non-uber wealthy) have little idea of the financial securities possible for the fabulously wealthy. I apparently cannot explain it in a way you can comprehend. That's a burden I shoulder due to my own limited abilities. I do not suggest that you are a moron.

 

And yes, we do disagree to a certain extent... :thumb:

Well I talk to and deal with individuals and small to moderate business owners every day. They are cutting back, freezing hiring, combining jobs and not replacing exiting employees, laying off, furloughing employees, enforcing pay reductions. My answer is why, if I was wealthy wouldn't this be the time to reinvest with a skilled and motivated work force looking daily, real estate in a definate buyers market. It's clear they've made money and are thriving, why aren't they supplying the demand?

On a side note, I haven't suggested anyone was ignorant although you've insisted that I don't have the ability to understand your argument. I do understand I just vehemently disagree.

 

Ask them, my guess is you will get the same answer I get. Too much uncertainty about what this administration and congress is going to do. That and you will probably also find out that they've lost about a third of their wealth since 2007. That will make anyone nervous at any level. Except Bill Gates.

I don't know how many jobs are provided by the construction of a yacht, or a corporate jet aircraft, or a luxury condo at a resort, or a luxury automobile, or high end apparel, or, or or... I don't know how many jobs are provided by staffing a yacht, crewing a corporate jet, fueling it, maintaining it, or in restaurants catering to the well-heeled, etc.... yeah, you're probably right, the wealthy don't spread enough of their loot around and don't generate jobs at all.

 

I do believe if I were to ask the hobo at the street corner for a job, he might (if he were in a good mood) hand be a piece of cardboard and a burned stick with a charcoal end to make my own sign to stand on the opposite corner and ask for handouts with him... if I give him a cut of the action.

 

 

I may just have to quit my job made possible by private industry and wealthy folks, and get on the righteous gubmint gravy train... :dancingpa

 

Is THAT where the jobs come from?

Well I talk to and deal with individuals and small to moderate business owners every day. They are cutting back, freezing hiring, combining jobs and not replacing exiting employees, laying off, furloughing employees, enforcing pay reductions. My answer is why, if I was wealthy wouldn't this be the time to reinvest with a skilled and motivated work force looking daily, real estate in a definate buyers market. It's clear they've made money and are thriving, why aren't they supplying the demand?

I don't know if you are married or not, but I would be willing to wager a hefty sum that you didn't woo your current spouse with threats and intimidation. Chances are you gently persuaded them that you were a safe, fun and sensible choice.

 

Why, when we have an administration that has made it clear they are going after the "wealthy" as a populist appeal to all the rest of us who aren't, would the wealthy desire to do anything but pull back and see what's in store for them and their filthy lucre? This administration is staffed by imbeciles so caught up in fueling class-warfare for votes, they have all but shut down the economic engine of the greatest economy in the world.

 

It short... in exchange for votes and a temporary grasp of power, they have bitten the hands that help feed us all.

 

You can woo a spouse through warmth and persuasion, or you can extort them... but don't think that an extorted spouse will demonstrate the affection and loyalty a loved and cherished spouse will. :thumb:

I don't know if you are married or not, but I would be willing to wager a hefty sum that you didn't woo your current spouse with threats and intimidation. Chances are you gently persuaded them that you were a safe, fun and sensible choice.

 

Why, when we have an administration that has made it clear they are going after the "wealthy" as a populist appeal to all the rest of us who aren't, would the wealthy desire to do anything but pull back and see what's in store for them and their filthy lucre? This administration is staffed by imbeciles so caught up in fueling class-warfare for votes, they have all but shut down the economic engine of the greatest economy in the world.

 

It short... in exchange for votes and a temporary grasp of power, they have bitten the hands that help feed us all.

 

You can woo a spouse through warmth and persuasion, or you can extort them... but don't think that an extorted spouse will demonstrate the affection and loyalty a loved and cherished spouse will. :thumb:

 

He asked this earlier, I guess you missed it. This tax structure has been in place since 2002 why have they not been creating all of these many jobs for all of these many years. They started getting way more money in 2002 you would think the jobs market would have skyrocketed with all the money available to the top %.

It does not produce more revenue to the government. Does not, does not, does not.

Why is it, when we're trying to discourage an activity like smoking we add more taxes to it. Ala the $1.61 per pack in Kentucky. AND when we hope to encourage an activity, we reduce taxes on it... like when a state is trying to woo an auto manufacturer to build their new plant in that state?

 

This is common sense, not rocket science.

 

When we tax achievement and growth, we impair progress.

 

There is a practical limit to what people are willing to give away to a freeloading government run by prostitue politicians willing to skewer the smallest demographics (the wealthy) in an attempt to curry favor with the broadest voting base (the rest of us).

 

Bottom line, government spending is out of control. We need some leaders with the cojones to trim the fat, secure the borders and look out for all Americans... not just those most likely to vote for them.

He asked this earlier, I guess you missed it. This tax structure has been in place since 2002 why have they not been creating all of these many jobs for all of these many years. They started getting way more money in 2002 you would think the jobs market would have skyrocketed with all the money available to the top %.

 

The majority of the cuts went into effect in 2003. Jobs, growth, and revenue all went up between 2003 and when the economy started coming apart.

He asked this earlier, I guess you missed it. This tax structure has been in place since 2002 why have they not been creating all of these many jobs for all of these many years. They started getting way more money in 2002 you would think the jobs market would have skyrocketed with all the money available to the top %.

Probably had nothing to do with the Democrats taking a commanding control of Congress in 2006... coupled with the uncertainty of the looming 2008 election when it was certain that Bush could not be reelected... and every Democrat running for president assuring increased taxes on the upper income groups... followed by the election of the one guy who pledged to stick it to those with the finances to fuel the economic engine of this country... followed by the forced passage of bills entirely out of favor with the majority of American people.

 

Nah... that couldn't have anything to do with it.

 

The rich are just selfish, greedy, stingy, big fat poopy heads. :thumb:

What did expenditures do in the same time frame? That's how.

 

So are you saying that the tax cuts caused spending to increase?

And therein lies the problem.

 

Why is this a problem? The money that people accumulate as wealth has already been taxed. Why should someone's kids have to pay taxes to get what their family has earned over generations?