^^My mistake, I read what you said completely wrong. My apologies.

In the grand scheme of things is this really a good move for Kelly? The ND job just isn't a good job anymore aside from the money. He is closer to a National title shot right now at UC than ND has been in years. No coach has had sustained success at ND in about 2 decades why would it be different for him? I say stay here until something better opens but money talks...

 

He made the UC job. Can't he make ND an even better job than UC? Unlimited resources out-weigh the negatives IMO. UC is not built for sustain national success at this time IMO, ND can be.

Did anyone else read this and misunderstand completely? :lol:

 

I just thought he was being redundant.

He made the UC job. Can't he make ND an even better job than UC? Unlimited resources out-weigh the negatives IMO. UC is not built for sustain national success at this time IMO, ND can be.

 

No he can't make ND a better job. If he stays at UC for a couple more years he can go anywhere. ND isn't the only team on TV every week like they were 20 years ago. There aren't enough Indiana players to recruit. There aren't enough Florida, Texas, or California kids willing to go where it's cold. Of the ones willing to go there a lot of the top notch athletes don't qualify for ND. The Big East is winnable every year for UC as long Kelly is there, and they don't expect a National title every other year. If he gets a hefty raise like what's being reported I think he'll hold out for a different (better) job. I'd guess Rich Rod would turn down the Michigan job right now if he could do it all over again. If they don't win next year he's gone IMO. Why do that to yourself?

No he can't make ND a better job. If he stays at UC for a couple more years he can go anywhere. ND isn't the only team on TV every week like they were 20 years ago. There aren't enough Indiana players to recruit. There aren't enough Florida, Texas, or California kids willing to go where it's cold. Of the ones willing to go there a lot of the top notch athletes don't qualify for ND. The Big East is winnable every year for UC as long Kelly is there, and they don't expect a National title every other year. If he gets a hefty raise like what's being reported I think he'll hold out for a different (better) job. I'd guess Rich Rod would turn down the Michigan job right now if he could do it all over again. If they don't win next year he's gone IMO. Why do that to yourself?

 

For the first part, ND still recruits very, very well. For one, ND recruits nationally and don't go instate as often as most teams do. As for Florida talent, they just got a kid away from Miami and UF at DT who is a 4 or 5 star on most sites, they were in the running for Lamarcus Joyner at top 10 recruit in the country by most, and the Linder kid at STA(?) has them high on his list and many felt Charlie could have pulled him in. Jimmy Clausen, Manti Teo, Michael Floyd, Dayne Crist, and a slew of others prove that ND can recruit. The talent just has to be coach. As far as NFL talent, ND currently has more top of the line Skill players than UC does IMO.

 

Jobs like ND, Michigan, USC are for the elite. It's what all or at least most college coaches aspire to become. If you can have success at a major level at ND, you go down as a legend. BK (or any coach with great success) at ND could be considered, if things worked out perfectly, among the coaching legends. Guys like Bowden, Paterno, Meyer, maybe even Bear or Osbourne if he is that great. No matter what he does at UC, his most likely comparison will probably be like a Frank Beamer or someone like that. It's about legacy.

New name has surfaced for the job per ESPN..........Skip Holtz. That would be a bad choice and the ND AD should be fired if he hires Skip.

^^Completely agree. I'm not sold on Skip, and I don't think he's worth firing Charlie over.

^^Completely agree. I'm not sold on Skip, and I don't think he's worth firing Charlie over.

 

I agree, but at least he knows what it takes to win at ND...

Kelly is a much better Irish name than Stoops.

For the first part, ND still recruits very, very well. For one, ND recruits nationally and don't go instate as often as most teams do. As for Florida talent, they just got a kid away from Miami and UF at DT who is a 4 or 5 star on most sites, they were in the running for Lamarcus Joyner at top 10 recruit in the country by most, and the Linder kid at STA(?) has them high on his list and many felt Charlie could have pulled him in. Jimmy Clausen, Manti Teo, Michael Floyd, Dayne Crist, and a slew of others prove that ND can recruit. The talent just has to be coach. As far as NFL talent, ND currently has more top of the line Skill players than UC does IMO.

 

Jobs like ND, Michigan, USC are for the elite. It's what all or at least most college coaches aspire to become. If you can have success at a major level at ND, you go down as a legend. BK (or any coach with great success) at ND could be considered, if things worked out perfectly, among the coaching legends. Guys like Bowden, Paterno, Meyer, maybe even Bear or Osbourne if he is that great. No matter what he does at UC, his most likely comparison will probably be like a Frank Beamer or someone like that. It's about legacy.

 

If they are such a good destination why is everyone getting fired after 5 years? So they can pull a couple kids out of every area? It's nothing like Meyer not needing to leave the state or Brown not needing to leave his either. USC recruits the whole country too and get the locall Cali kids. Let me see Southern Cali/Hollywood shorts year round, or South Bend w/ snow and below 0 temps. Tough call. They are no longer the national attraction they were. Nebraska was a national team a while back too. Now kids understand that it's cold there. ND is a bigger and better job than UC I'm not arguing that. It's just UC competes w/ nobodies nationally like ND. UC fans and the AD expect far less of the UC program. If they're lucky enough to schedule a USC or OSU that's great. They don't get fired for losing those games though. Kelly is smart enough to see that IMO.

Hire Stoops. He has the best chance to win and win fast. IMO

If they are such a good destination why is everyone getting fired after 5 years? So they can pull a couple kids out of every area? It's nothing like Meyer not needing to leave the state or Brown not needing to leave his either. USC recruits the whole country too and get the locall Cali kids. Let me see Southern Cali/Hollywood shorts year round, or South Bend w/ snow and below 0 temps. Tough call. They are no longer the national attraction they were. Nebraska was a national team a while back too. Now kids understand that it's cold there. ND is a bigger and better job than UC I'm not arguing that. It's just UC competes w/ nobodies nationally like ND. UC fans and the AD expect far less of the UC program. If they're lucky enough to schedule a USC or OSU that's great. They don't get fired for losing those games though. Kelly is smart enough to see that IMO.

 

SSC,

That is what I'm saying about recruiting nationally. USC does, but not to the extent that ND has to. ND doesn't have to get kids from a particular area. Clausen left sunny California for ND, and he was about as big of a recruit as anyone the last few years.

 

It's not a great job right now, but if Charlie could bring them in there remember he got Floyd after a 3 win season, and Teo after last year, don't you think they'd continue to grab more players with success.

 

Coaches have been fired from ND because they cannot live up to ND standard. Davie and especially Willingham had to be fired. If for no other reason, Willingham was running the program into the ground recruiting wise as he didn't bring in but a handful of OL in his 3 years. Charlie had a shorter leash, but that has to do with quality candidates ND figured would take the job. The talent is there now to win, maybe not a BCS Title, but at least to start to become ND again. Going forward there is probably more of or atleast the same amount of talent at ND as there is UC.

UC is going to be a 2nd option at best in the state of Ohio for a while, you just don't knock off a program like the Buckeyes after a few seasons. They will win some battles of course, particulary closer to Cincinnati, but most likely this amount of success, meaning BCS Title contention, will not be able to be maintained. The Big East will continue to get better. USF is starting to close the recruiting ground in Florida, WVU continues to recruit well in Florida and other southern places, U of L may get Charlie Strong who will recruit well, Pitt finally seems to be ready to go.

 

Isn't it better to be Rich Rod and get a shot at a top program and make your money while trying to leave a mark than to be like Schiano and stay and fade away realizing that it is hard to build a consistent title threat right now. And NJ is pretty good recruiting ground athletic wise.

 

I think the job at UC would end up being the tougher job in the long run, if Kelly is the kind of coach he is made out to be. He is relatively young and his stock will never be higher. He can do great things at either school, but ND is a job like no other IMO. If ND is ran correctly they could be a consistent power IMO, even with academic requirements.

 

And look at the U of L fanbase. Kelly won't have to keep winning big? A little different situation, but say Kelly's teams fall to 6 wins in the following 3 years do you still think they will be loyal? Will the fans still come? Will improvements continue to be made in the program from the boosters? History tells us that it doesn't happen like that. Kelly has a lot more to lose by staying at UC than he does going to ND IMO. If he flames out at ND then what? Willingham still got a BCS job, and Washington is not that bad of a program. Weis gets to go run some NFL teams Offense. If he stays and fails at UC, he'll be back in the MAC.

 

I like Kelly being close to here because he is so successful, but IMO he should take the money and run looking at it as from only the job perspective. It will take less work to make ND a power again, than it will take to make UC a Football power year in and year out, and he'll make more money along the way. Without a traditional power the Big East teams are going to go in cycles IMO for the most part. Had Miami and VT stayed in the Big East, I would give alot of them a shot. But it's hard to get a kid to want to come to UC or Pitt to compete for the Big East title when they can go to OSU or a program like that and play in a better conference (annually) with more exposure.

CCC, my point is he should leave. Just not for ND. You actually made my recruting point for me. ND will always land some of the top talent. But the bottom 1/2 of the roster won't compare. USC, Florida, Texas, and others just take all the locals and they're great. IMO cold weather teams are going to have a tougher and tougher time. OSU, Michigan, and PSU might get away w/ it b/c their conference isn't strong and they can recruit local kids. Where is ND pulling kids from to fill the bottom of the roster w/ really good players? You also made my point about ND. Kelly will be expected to win and win big right away at ND. If Claussen leaves, which he will, good luck w/ that. Kelly should hold out for a better job than ND even though ND is a better job than UC. Expectations there are too high. If he were at Central Michigan it would be a no brainer.

 

As far as the BE goes. Nobody in that conference wants to see him there two more years. They know he will score and score a bunch w/ Collaros. If he stays 2 years and knocks off a couple of really big schools he can wait out a far better job than ND. Who is the last ND coach to take another high profile college job or NFL job by leaving on their own? Why go to a death trap? When LSU gets rid of Miles next year and he goes to Michigan there will be a shakeup.

I said Skip for the Cards but someone shot me down pretty quick.

CCC, my point is he should leave. Just not for ND. You actually made my recruting point for me. ND will always land some of the top talent. But the bottom 1/2 of the roster won't compare. USC, Florida, Texas, and others just take all the locals and they're great. IMO cold weather teams are going to have a tougher and tougher time. OSU, Michigan, and PSU might get away w/ it b/c their conference isn't strong and they can recruit local kids. Where is ND pulling kids from to fill the bottom of the roster w/ really good players? You also made my point about ND. Kelly will be expected to win and win big right away at ND. If Claussen leaves, which he will, good luck w/ that. Kelly should hold out for a better job than ND even though ND is a better job than UC. Expectations there are too high. If he were at Central Michigan it would be a no brainer.

 

As far as the BE goes. Nobody in that conference wants to see him there two more years. They know he will score and score a bunch w/ Collaros. If he stays 2 years and knocks off a couple of really big schools he can wait out a far better job than ND. Who is the last ND coach to take another high profile college job or NFL job by leaving on their own? Why go to a death trap? When LSU gets rid of Miles next year and he goes to Michigan there will be a shakeup.

 

I just think that you can't bank on there being jobs in the future. The more an offense is ran in a conference, the better teams defend it. Look at Spurrier's Fun and Gun in the SEC, even how much UF has had to change their offense at UF in Urban's tenure. You have to strike while the iron is hot. There is no higher profile job than ND. The bottom half of the roster doesn't have to be garbage IMO. If he can get top talent, he can get the roster fillers as well. ND with the right choice could get some Florida, Texas, California and a few other states talent, there is more than enough talent around.

 

It doesn't have to be a death trap. Same was said about UK basketball, but look at Cal. Expectations are high, but the right man at either job can make it into a great one. JMO, and I respect yours and see where you're coming from SSC.