I think you are correct on Peterson.

 

I think you and others are in the minority but I fully appreciate your position. I can't agree with it though to the full extent required to put someone in jail or on death row.

 

Most probably hold your view.

 

But my question is this: If Scott Peterson was prosecuted for taking two lives and not just one, why isn't this applied in each situation? The only difference is intent (Laci Peterson wanted to have the baby). That case alone proves that the legal system recognizes a baby in the womb as a human life.

 

I just think it's a huge inconsistency in regards to the legal system. If it's life in Case A, why wouldn't it be life in Case B?

All you've done is support my theory. You rail against the act itself without commenting on the main point I made. Everyone wants to stomp their feet and shout from the rooftops how evil abortion is (including me) but no one wants to take it to its seemingly natural conclusion that its a criminal act and the mothers should be jailed as murderers (I don't.)

 

If you care to address the real point I made have at it. If you only want to restate your position on the evils of abortion save the server space.

 

I have addressed that point 1,000 times on here.

The illegal act committed should see the doctor put in jail.

There should be consequences for the mother but upon the first one would not carry jail time. For the 2nd and past, yes, jail time.

Most probably hold your view.

 

But my question is this: If Scott Peterson was prosecuted for taking two lives and not just one, why isn't this applied in each situation? The only difference is intent (Laci Peterson wanted to have the baby). That case alone proves that the legal system recognizes a baby in the womb as a human life.

 

I just think it's a huge inconsistency in regards to the legal system. If it's life in Case A, why wouldn't it be life in Case B?

 

Fair questions. It seems to be a contradiction.

I have addressed that point 1,000 times on here.

The illegal act committed should see the doctor put in jail.

There should be consequences for the mother but upon the first one would not carry jail time. For the 2nd and past, yes, jail time.

 

You are in the minority of all people.

 

That was my original point. Most liberals disagree with you. Most moderates disagree with you. Most Republicans disagree with you.

For the orginal question, as to how the "Religious Right" compare to the Taliban I can only see one way that you could even make the case. This is just my opinion, so please do not take offense. I'm speaking as a college student in my early 20's, so obviously I haven't really lived long enough to really see all sides.

 

Obviously the Taliban uses religion to influence it's members and get people to join. The use religion to apply their policy and practices.

 

I think that the GOP sort of does this as well, though obviously it's not as extreme or evil as what the Taliban does. I think the GOP party uses alot of the Bible to get people to vote their way, IMO. I don't really think that alot of Republican Policies reflect what is best for America, but they know where to hit home for a lot of folks.

 

To me 3 things pull people to this party. The first two have pulled my mother, a life time Democrat, to vote Republican in the last 3 Presidential Elections.

 

1. Abortion- To me, I think this is a senseless think to vote for or against. Not because it's not a big issue (it is obviously), but because I just don't see the laws changing soon. It really doesn't matter if the candidate says he is for it or against it nothing is going to change.

 

2. Marriage Laws- Another big issue, but it shouldn't be IMO. What gives any of us the right to tell another human being who they can or cannot marry? Who does it hurt? Probably the smallest and most insignificant topic that gets brought up. We are fighting a war, economy was (is?) in the tank, people in our own country are sick and can't go to the doctor and we're worried about two people who love each other getting married?

 

3. Economic Policy/anti-americanism propoganda- The so-called fear of socialism, and the idea that capitalism is the American way and any thing that challenges the status quo must be terroristic. No where in the Constitution does it say that America must be capitalist or promote big business. Fear of the government stablizing the economy, while allowing the rich to get richer. In all honesty, it's really the question of do you want the government to help and control the economy or do you want the fat-cat businesses to run it? To me, it's nothing more than what's happened through out the last century. Propoganda and lies to cover up the fact that we are not really in control, we're still the property of "the man". The idea that this style of economics is what God would want. But, I just don't see God wanting greed, corruption, and the lust for more wealth.

 

Obviously there are more reasons to pick a party, but I tend to think that these three are the main reasons. Once again this is just from my perspective and my few years of experience. Most people that I know that have voted Republican, site one of these three things as a main reason. So the GOP does use religion in politics and control, but I do not think that they compare to the Taliban. Maybe a similar approach, but obviously a different end goal.

 

Just my 2 cents. Like I said, I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did, just stating my opinion. I in no way would compare the Religious Right to the Taliban any further than the fact that religion is involved in attracting members.

For the orginal question, as to how the "Religious Right" compare to the Taliban I can only see one way that you could even make the case. This is just my opinion, so please do not take offense. I'm speaking as a college student in my early 20's, so obviously I haven't really lived long enough to really see all sides.

 

Obviously the Taliban uses religion to influence it's members and get people to join. The use religion to apply their policy and practices.

 

I think that the GOP sort of does this as well, though obviously it's not as extreme or evil as what the Taliban does. I think the GOP party uses alot of the Bible to get people to vote their way, IMO. I don't really think that alot of Republican Policies reflect what is best for America, but they know where to hit home for a lot of folks.

 

To me 3 things pull people to this party. The first two have pulled my mother, a life time Democrat, to vote Republican in the last 3 Presidential Elections.

 

1. Abortion- To me, I think this is a senseless think to vote for or against. Not because it's not a big issue (it is obviously), but because I just don't see the laws changing soon. It really doesn't matter if the candidate says he is for it or against it nothing is going to change.

 

2. Marriage Laws- Another big issue, but it shouldn't be IMO. What gives any of us the right to tell another human being who they can or cannot marry? Who does it hurt? Probably the smallest and most insignificant topic that gets brought up. We are fighting a war, economy was (is?) in the tank, people in our own country are sick and can't go to the doctor and we're worried about two people who love each other getting married?

 

3. Economic Policy/anti-americanism propoganda- The so-called fear of socialism, and the idea that capitalism is the American way and any thing that challenges the status quo must be terroristic. No where in the Constitution does it say that America must be capitalist or promote big business. Fear of the government stablizing the economy, while allowing the rich to get richer. In all honesty, it's really the question of do you want the government to help and control the economy or do you want the fat-cat businesses to run it? To me, it's nothing more than what's happened through out the last century. Propoganda and lies to cover up the fact that we are not really in control, we're still the property of "the man". The idea that this style of economics is what God would want. But, I just don't see God wanting greed, corruption, and the lust for more wealth.

 

Obviously there are more reasons to pick a party, but I tend to think that these three are the main reasons. Once again this is just from my perspective and my few years of experience. Most people that I know that have voted Republican, site one of these three things as a main reason. So the GOP does use religion in politics and control, but I do not think that they compare to the Taliban. Maybe a similar approach, but obviously a different end goal.

 

Just my 2 cents. Like I said, I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did, just stating my opinion. I in no way would compare the Religious Right to the Taliban any further than the fact that religion is involved in attracting members.

 

I disagree with you, but see your perspective.

 

In regards to abortion, not much really has changed. Abortion numbers have reduced over the years, if I remember correctly.

 

But I do know that Bill Clinton twice vetoed a ban on partial-birth abortion, whereas George W. Bush signed the ban into law. I know that this law is being tossed around it the courts as we speak, but Bush at least attempted to make illegal that barbaric act, whereas Clinton did not (his reasoning was that there was no provision given in instances where a mother's life was in danger during the late-term pregnancy).

 

So to me, a voter who looks first & foremost at a candidate's position on abortion, I would say that not much has changed. But attempts have been made by a Republican commander-in-chief and not made by a Democratic one (and there were even Democratic senators & representatives who rightly voted to ban that act too).

 

I do agree that some Republicans (not all) have used abortion/gay marriage solely for political purposes (hello, Mitt Romney). While others stand on those issues and it's obvious that they are deeply held convictions (hello, Norm Coleman).

For the orginal question, as to how the "Religious Right" compare to the Taliban I can only see one way that you could even make the case. This is just my opinion, so please do not take offense. I'm speaking as a college student in my early 20's, so obviously I haven't really lived long enough to really see all sides.

 

Obviously the Taliban uses religion to influence it's members and get people to join. The use religion to apply their policy and practices.

 

I think that the GOP sort of does this as well, though obviously it's not as extreme or evil as what the Taliban does. I think the GOP party uses alot of the Bible to get people to vote their way, IMO. I don't really think that alot of Republican Policies reflect what is best for America, but they know where to hit home for a lot of folks.

 

To me 3 things pull people to this party. The first two have pulled my mother, a life time Democrat, to vote Republican in the last 3 Presidential Elections.

 

1. Abortion- To me, I think this is a senseless think to vote for or against. Not because it's not a big issue (it is obviously), but because I just don't see the laws changing soon. It really doesn't matter if the candidate says he is for it or against it nothing is going to change.

 

2. Marriage Laws- Another big issue, but it shouldn't be IMO. What gives any of us the right to tell another human being who they can or cannot marry? Who does it hurt? Probably the smallest and most insignificant topic that gets brought up. We are fighting a war, economy was (is?) in the tank, people in our own country are sick and can't go to the doctor and we're worried about two people who love each other getting married?

 

3. Economic Policy/anti-americanism propoganda- The so-called fear of socialism, and the idea that capitalism is the American way and any thing that challenges the status quo must be terroristic. No where in the Constitution does it say that America must be capitalist or promote big business. Fear of the government stablizing the economy, while allowing the rich to get richer. In all honesty, it's really the question of do you want the government to help and control the economy or do you want the fat-cat businesses to run it? To me, it's nothing more than what's happened through out the last century. Propoganda and lies to cover up the fact that we are not really in control, we're still the property of "the man". The idea that this style of economics is what God would want. But, I just don't see God wanting greed, corruption, and the lust for more wealth.

 

Obviously there are more reasons to pick a party, but I tend to think that these three are the main reasons. Once again this is just from my perspective and my few years of experience. Most people that I know that have voted Republican, site one of these three things as a main reason. So the GOP does use religion in politics and control, but I do not think that they compare to the Taliban. Maybe a similar approach, but obviously a different end goal.

 

Just my 2 cents. Like I said, I didn't mean to offend anyone if I did, just stating my opinion. I in no way would compare the Religious Right to the Taliban any further than the fact that religion is involved in attracting members.

 

Don't sell yourself short, CCC, you appear to have a pretty firm grasp of the issues at hand & expressed your thoughts quite well...:thumb:

To me 3 things pull people to this party. The first two have pulled my mother, a life time Democrat, to vote Republican in the last 3 Presidential Elections.

 

1. Abortion- To me, I think this is a senseless think to vote for or against. Not because it's not a big issue (it is obviously), but because I just don't see the laws changing soon. It really doesn't matter if the candidate says he is for it or against it nothing is going to change.

 

2. Marriage Laws- Another big issue, but it shouldn't be IMO. What gives any of us the right to tell another human being who they can or cannot marry? Who does it hurt? Probably the smallest and most insignificant topic that gets brought up. We are fighting a war, economy was (is?) in the tank, people in our own country are sick and can't go to the doctor and we're worried about two people who love each other getting married?

 

3. Economic Policy/anti-americanism propoganda- The so-called fear of socialism, and the idea that capitalism is the American way and any thing that challenges the status quo must be terroristic. No where in the Constitution does it say that America must be capitalist or promote big business. Fear of the government stablizing the economy, while allowing the rich to get richer. In all honesty, it's really the question of do you want the government to help and control the economy or do you want the fat-cat businesses to run it? To me, it's nothing more than what's happened through out the last century. Propoganda and lies to cover up the fact that we are not really in control, we're still the property of "the man". The idea that this style of economics is what God would want. But, I just don't see God wanting greed, corruption, and the lust for more wealth.

 

 

 

As Rm alluded to, if you have a strong spiritual faith, it has to play into your decision on almost all issues that are major decision making issues. And sometimes even smaller issues. If a person is struggling with the sin of lust in their life, than their spiritual faith has to come into play when they do something as insignificant as choosing what show to watch.

 

1. Randy Parker did a good job pointing out at least one of the reasons why it does matter. Bill Clinton continued to allow babies to be partial born and then aborted. W stopped that practice.

 

The other important issue in this matter is Supreme Court justices. 9 by Jeff Toborg (I think that was the author) is a great book on the last 20 years or so concerning Supreme Court Cases. Thread on here somewhere about it. I recommend the book highly.

 

Anyhow, R v W was basically set to be overturned in the 90's. The Chief Justice had the votes lined up. And one justice changed her mind after a talk with another justice and kept it in place.

 

The appointment of Justices is vital in this battle.

 

And with your mindset of not changing, if those who fought against slavery had felt that way, it might have never changed either.

 

2. Who said anything about 2? If 2 of whatever gender is allowed to be married, why can't 3? Or 4? Or 29? If we cannot define what marriage is between 2 individuals, we surely cannot tell 29 individuals that they are all in love with each other and all get married to each other, can we?

 

If we say that marriage is not only between one man and one woman, how can we then be hypocritical and say well, we will allow this marriage of two men or two women, but not between three people?

 

3. I agree that God didn't want greed, lust, etc that you mention. But those are human traits and no matter what system you have, you are not going to get rid of those traits. Same as racism. Some comedian said it. You can't fix stupid.

 

And notice, no mention of Christianity or God through the first 2 points. Third point, no way around it since you had brought it into your argument.:thumb:

Its sad, but the majority of the left think that way.

As Rm alluded to, if you have a strong spiritual faith, it has to play into your decision on almost all issues that are major decision making issues. And sometimes even smaller issues. If a person is struggling with the sin of lust in their life, than their spiritual faith has to come into play when they do something as insignificant as choosing what show to watch.

 

1. Randy Parker did a good job pointing out at least one of the reasons why it does matter. Bill Clinton continued to allow babies to be partial born and then aborted. W stopped that practice.

 

The other important issue in this matter is Supreme Court justices. 9 by Jeff Toborg (I think that was the author) is a great book on the last 20 years or so concerning Supreme Court Cases. Thread on here somewhere about it. I recommend the book highly.

 

Anyhow, R v W was basically set to be overturned in the 90's. The Chief Justice had the votes lined up. And one justice changed her mind after a talk with another justice and kept it in place.

 

The appointment of Justices is vital in this battle.

 

And with your mindset of not changing, if those who fought against slavery had felt that way, it might have never changed either.

 

2. Who said anything about 2? If 2 of whatever gender is allowed to be married, why can't 3? Or 4? Or 29? If we cannot define what marriage is between 2 individuals, we surely cannot tell 29 individuals that they are all in love with each other and all get married to each other, can we?

 

If we say that marriage is not only between one man and one woman, how can we then be hypocritical and say well, we will allow this marriage of two men or two women, but not between three people?

 

3. I agree that God didn't want greed, lust, etc that you mention. But those are human traits and no matter what system you have, you are not going to get rid of those traits. Same as racism. Some comedian said it. You can't fix stupid.

 

And notice, no mention of Christianity or God through the first 2 points. Third point, no way around it since you had brought it into your argument.:thumb:

 

I only brought in religion because that is the only thing that I feel that Matthews could have been talking about.

 

As for marriage it's not my right to tell people they can't be married. If more than two people want to get married to each other, that should be their right as well, IMO.

 

With abortion, I just really don't concern myself with it. I don't really condone or condemn it. It's legal and it's not my place to tell anyone else what they can do. I don't see abortion getting completely wiped out so I'm not really that concerned.

 

As for religion in political views, I think you are missing what I'm saying. In my opinion, some people only vote based on their religion. To me, and once again this is just my thoughts and I'm no way trying to offend anyone, I don't think the ideals and views of the GOP benefit us in the working class or lower. To combat that religion is used. Think of the scare tactics against Obama. That did sway some of the vote, IMO. IMO, I think that they know which issues to push really strongly and use it to their advantage. No doubt the democratic party does it as well in some issues, but it seems that the GOP tries to paint the democratic party as non-religious and/or Un-American. JMO.

With abortion, I just really don't concern myself with it. I don't really condone or condemn it. It's legal and it's not my place to tell anyone else what they can do. I don't see abortion getting completely wiped out so I'm not really that concerned.

 

This is where you & I are completely, entirely different. The child in the womb is a human life that must be protected & valued at all times.

This is where you & I are completely, entirely different. The child in the womb is a human life that must be protected & valued at all times.

 

I'm kind of torn on it. I look at it that way, or at least I would if it were my child and wife/girlfriend. But, everyone doesn't and won't. I wouldn't want to be involved with an abortion, but I don't think it's my place to tell someone else that they can't have one.

Do you think a child in the womb is life?

Do you think a child in the womb is life?

 

NOpe

So that is where we differ.

 

It's also where there is contradiction in the legal system. In the Scott Peterson case, he was convicted of taking two lives. In abortion, it's somehow different.