How is it overexaggerated? Most of the "best players" in Rockies history were perceived as stars or superstars only because of Coors Field's inflation of their offensive numbers.

For the purpose of this argument, it's much better to look at their numbers the last 2-3 years instead of their career numbers, in part because Ludwick has had a pretty unconventional career path.

 

What we're seeing from Holliday this year is what we're going to get. His road numbers the last 2-3 years are of a guy that will hit between .280 and .300 with 20-25 HR and 80-90 RBI.

 

:thumb: We'll see.

The reaction from this board with this trade reminds me of the deal last year when the Red Sox acquired Jason Bay to be honest. I think it will work out wonders for St. Louis and they will represent the NL in the World Series.

For anyone to say that numbers are overly better at Coors field is just ridiculous. Look at Mike Hampton, Matt Holliday, Vinny Castilla, even Larry Walker.

 

Matt Holliday is a good hitter and a good player but due to Coors field his numbers were inflated and made him look like a top of the line player, which he is not.

The reaction from this board with this trade reminds me of the deal last year when the Red Sox acquired Jason Bay to be honest. I think it will work out wonders for St. Louis and they will represent the NL in the World Series.

I haven't seen anyone here criticizing the Cardinals' end of the deal. He's certainly an upgrade for them, but how much so is debatable.

 

There were some of us that thought the Bay deal was a good one for Boston. Still, they didn't make it to the World Series, either.

Pujols makes 14.4 this year

Holliday makes 13.5

Thanks, seems like I heard a month or so ago that the Cards wouldn't make this deal because Holliday makes more then Pujols. I guess not.

His hitting at Coors is exactly why I hoped he would be a Red hitting in GABP!

Edited July 24, 200917 yr by bugatti

Must be nice to cheer for a team that will go out and make moves to win. Cards will win the NL Central now, IMO.

This puts them up there with the Phillies, but the Dodgers are still better IMO.

Ludwick in July: .391-5-23

 

Again, what's the big difference?

 

It adds depth to the lineup:

 

Here was the lineup a few weeks ago:

2B Shuemaker

CF Ankiel/Rasmus

1B Pujols

RF Ludwick

LF Ankiel/Duncan

C Molina

3B Thurston

SS Ryan

 

Now:

2B Shuemaker or Lugo

3B DeRosa

1B Pujols

LF Holliday

RF Ludwick

CF Ankiel or Rasmus

C Molina

SS Ryan or Lugo

 

Much better lineup and a deep one

.

 

Matt Holliday is a good hitter and a good player but due to Coors field his numbers were inflated and made him look like a top of the line player, which he is not.

 

He went 4-5 tonight.

Boy did that help my fantasy team and I get Reyes back soon.

It adds depth to the lineup:

 

Much better lineup and a deep one

I agree, but that wasn't the point that I was making.

 

My point is that Holliday may not offer any more "protection" for Pujols than Ludwick did. Of course, I think the "protection" concept is vastly overrated and overstated.

I agree, but that wasn't the point that I was making.

 

My point is that Holliday may not offer any more "protection" for Pujols than Ludwick did. Of course, I think the "protection" concept is vastly overrated and overstated.

 

You maybe right. Ludwick has been hot lately. The name Holliday gets a little more respect than Ludwick. Even if it may not be justified. Managers may be a little reluctant to pitch around Pujols just because of that. Still if I am an opposing manager, someone besides Pujols would have to beat me.

I think if Bonds had any protection... it would be scary the numbers he would have. San Fran blew it IMO not getting him some hitters behind him!

I think if Bonds had any protection... it would be scary the numbers he would have. San Fran blew it IMO not getting him some hitters behind him!

 

 

He wasn't alone in San Francisco's lineup. The fact is it didn't matter who, outside of someone like Pujols, Manny, A-Roid, etc was in the lineup with him opposing managers weren't going to let him beat them if they could avoid it.

In 2007 he had 28 homers and 66 RBIs, those 28 led the team but Feliz, Durham and Molina all drove in more runs and Winn only had 1 less than Bonds. In 2006 he had 26 RBIs and 77 RBIs. The 26 homers tied him with Durham for the team lead but Durham, Feliz, and Alou all hit at least 22 and Durham and Feliz both had more RBIs. In 2005 he was injured and only played 40 games. In 2004 he had 45 homers and 101 RBIs. 7 other players had at least 11 homers and 4 drove in at least 77 runs. In 2003 he had 45 homers again, this time with 90 RBIs. There were 7 other players again who had at least 11 homers and 2 with 20. In 2002 he had 46 homers and 110 RBIs. He had Jeff Kent in the lineup who hit 37 homers and had 108 RBIs along with 4 other players who hit at least 15 homers and 4 players (including Kent) that drove in at least 73 runs. He was far from alone in the Giants lineup. He was just the best hitter in baseball during those years and he was going to get pitched around no matter what.