The Sweet 16 is a great tournament. But to put a different spin on it - by using the Cantrell Ratings from 1/26 - three regions do not have a team in the top 25, the #1 team in four regions is not in the top 25, 13 of the top 25 teams won't make it out of their region. Two Regions (7th and 11th) have 7 of the top 16 teams and seven regions don't have a team in the top 16.

If we ever went to the crappy WV and other 49 state class system, then we would have a never ending comparison. I would really hate to take away our distinctness because a team like Elliott will never be able to play a team like Holmes and the debate will go on for centuries about who is the better team; this way they can play head to head. Would you like to live the rest of your days arguing about who is the best knowing they will never play. In the case of "The greatest show on earth" if Elliott or Holmes didn't make it then they wasn't the true champion; plan and simple. It's great to truly know who the real and only state champion is. That’s what gives us Kentuckians the true understanding of what it takes to make and be a true champion. :banana:

You could have a four class or five class system bring the final four from each class to Rupp Arena let them all play to earn their class championship and add a day ($$) and let the class champions compete for the true state championship as you call it and that is so sacred to most on here.

Refering to the argument about should there be 5 or 6 classes not on how the structure the class system should be.

I'm a firm beliver that small schools can compete with large in b-ball. Being one of only two states that still has only one class makes us stand out IMO. Why do we want to be like every one else?

I'm a firm beliver that small schools can compete with large in b-ball. Being one of only two states that still has only one class makes us stand out IMO. Why do we want to be like every one else?

 

That is the point that so many seem to be missing. Small schools can, and do compete, with the bigs. This year, the team carrying the "small school banner" - so to speak - is Elliott County. Hazard and Corbin are doing a pretty fair job, too. And North Oldham.

 

Another point is that people seem to assume that those supporting a single class system are only concerned with having one true champion. In reality, that's not the point at all. The point is what we are teaching our youth...at its best, a class system (to a degree) evens the playing field in sports (such as football) where larger enrollment means a tremendous advantage on the field. At its worst - such as in basketball, where school size is only a slight advantage - it only shows kids how to limit their aspirations, goals, and dreams based upon the expectations of those who have no real input on the court. We suggest that they settle for a "co-champion" system...that they really not concern themselves with shooting to be their absolute best.

 

(BTW, someguy, we are now the only state in the US with a one-class system...Indiana was the last state to convert to a class system...)

If the KHSAA ever decides to go with classes, two is enough. I don't see it happening anytime in the near future.

 

The All A Classic gives small schools an additional shot at "a state title," which is why I support the system already in place.

That is the point that so many seem to be missing. Small schools can, and do compete, with the bigs. This year, the team carrying the "small school banner" - so to speak - is Elliott County. Hazard and Corbin are doing a pretty fair job, too. And North Oldham.

North Oldham is hardly a "small school" in Kentucky ... more like medium-sized. Given Corbin's recent growth, the same premise nearly applies to them, too.

 

Besides, this is an unusual year in which several schools below 750 enrollment (Elliott County, Shelby Valley, Corbin, Hazard, maybe even Bardstown) could legitimately be ranked in the state's top 20.

North Oldham is hardly a "small school" in Kentucky ... more like medium-sized. Given Corbin's recent growth, the same premise nearly applies to them, too.

 

Besides, this is an unusual year in which several schools below 750 enrollment (Elliott County, Shelby Valley, Corbin, Hazard, maybe even Bardstown) could legitimately be ranked in the state's top 20.

 

 

I would agree, North Oldham is a "mid-sized" school with just over 800students...but it's still "small" (3A football) compared with the "bigs". And you have to remember what this thread is about. For those pushing a class system idea, they are doing so on behalf of schools that are North Oldham's size. North is not an "A" school - but they are in no way close to being a large school. This thread was started with the concept of starting a "AA" class - which, in the event there were three classes - would most definitely include North Oldham and Corbin, which is why I mentioned both.

 

And I think I can safely state that North Oldham in no way shape or form wants to compete for anything but the overall state championship. That's probably true for Corbin, Hazard, and Shelby Valley as well...

...at some rankings from past years that I just happened to have around...

 

Looks like the smaller teams were competing pretty well in 2000-01...

 

2/13/2001 Associated Press:

Among the top 20 boys' vote-getters: Newport Central Catholic, Bell County, Wayne County, Somerset, Lincoln County, and Washington County.

 

3/6/2001 Litkenhous:

 

Among the top 20 rankings: Covington Catholic, Newport Catholic

 

GIRLS: During this same period of time, the AP had Jackson County #1, followed by #2 West Carter. Other top 20 girls' teams: #8 Hart County, T#10 Caldwell County, T#10 Somerset, East Carter, Lincoln County, and Clinton County.

...at some rankings from past years that I just happened to have around...

 

Looks like the smaller teams were competing pretty well in 2000-01...

 

2/13/2001 Associated Press:

Among the top 20 boys' vote-getters: Newport Central Catholic, Bell County, Wayne County, Somerset, Lincoln County, and Washington County.

Bell County, Wayne County and Lincoln County aren't exactly small schools, and I would never use the AP poll as an accurate barometer for determining the top 20 teams, given some of the membership's screwy voting habits.

3/6/2001 Litkenhous:

 

Among the top 20 rankings: Covington Catholic, Newport Catholic

 

GIRLS: During this same period of time, the AP had Jackson County #1, followed by #2 West Carter. Other top 20 girls' teams: #8 Hart County, T#10 Caldwell County, T#10 Somerset, East Carter, Lincoln County, and Clinton County.

I wasn't referring to the girls' side of things ... and this thread is in the boys' forum.

I would agree, North Oldham is a "mid-sized" school with just over 800students...but it's still "small" (3A football) compared with the "bigs". And you have to remember what this thread is about. For those pushing a class system idea, they are doing so on behalf of schools that are North Oldham's size. North is not an "A" school - but they are in no way close to being a large school. This thread was started with the concept of starting a "AA" class - which, in the event there were three classes - would most definitely include North Oldham and Corbin, which is why I mentioned both.

 

And I think I can safely state that North Oldham in no way shape or form wants to compete for anything but the overall state championship. That's probably true for Corbin, Hazard, and Shelby Valley as well...

North Oldham doesn't belong in the same discussion with Elliott County, Corbin, Hazard and Shelby Valley, both in terms of enrollment and rankings — those teams are pushing to be in the top 10, and North Oldham isn't.

For what it's worth, here is the average (recent 2-year period) enrollment for the teams currently ranked in the BGP Top 20, per the KHSAA:

 

Holmes 931

Scott County 1927

Eastern 1936

Jeffersontown 1049

Elliott County 332

Ballard 1697

Bryan Station 1416

Mason County 816

Corbin 684

Seneca 1715

Lexington Catholic 868

Shelby Valley 596

Dunbar 2191

Clark County 1634

Christian County 1332

Trinity 1381

Hazard 312

Warren Central 1141

Franklin County 982

Anderson County 1162

Mess with the greatest tournament in US High school basketball, no, like others

have said, if it's not broke then don't fix it!

 

I agree.

Edited January 30, 200917 yr by STRIKE3
edited content

North Oldham doesn't belong in the same discussion with Elliott County, Corbin, Hazard and Shelby Valley, both in terms of enrollment and rankings — those teams are pushing to be in the top 10, and North Oldham isn't.

 

I can say that this comment is wrong. North Oldham isn't pushing the top 10 due to being a school that has only been around 6 years, not because they aren't good enough. North had one bad game all year to a top 15 team and the other losses have all been on the road and to very good teams.

 

(@ Ballard by 10 in a game that was tied late, by 9 to Henderson County @ Oldham County in a game tied with 2:00 left, by 7 to Owensboro in a game they led with 4 minutes to go, by 2 @ Anderson County in a game they led by 10 with 6:00 left and by 3 @ Bullitt East in a game that saw Bullitt East shoot 35 homer free throws to North's 15)

 

North Oldham is ranked 2nd or 3rd in the state in scoring and has a lot of guns. For a program that is only 6 years old they have come a long way, but is definitely not in the "inner circle" of teams that are always in the top 25. That won't happen for them if they are 15-0 because people don't know nor respect their program.

 

The only thing this program doesn't have is a storied name that keeps them in the discussion every year. They may well be playing in Rupp this year, but even then likely won't get any respect.

 

To say they don't belong in the discussion is total nonsense. They only don't if you continue to base all thoughts on teams on history and tradition versus their play. North has been in every game above and you need only to ask Coach Renner at Ballard his thoughts. They were in a dog fight on opening night and if that game isn't at Ballard then North Oldham has a win versus a top 10 team.