One of the things that bothers me is they are really hammering the notion that a coach said they would run until someone quit or threwup. There is nothing criminal about that.

 

There may be nothing criminal about it, but there's nothing overly smart about doing something like this either. It's not the Navy Seals, it's high school football involving kids. And far too many people lose sight of this.

 

I am not commenting about this particular coach or case, BTW, only the notion that a "run until someone quits or throws up" policy is idiotic and has no place in high school sports.

A prosecutor brings a charge for many reasons, not the least of which is political pressure. He is an elected official. And here is a dead kid.

 

An honest prosecutor does not make recommendations and is not supposed to be present during deliberations, so that is no great feat.

 

And I'm not sure where you get your information about the sophistication of grand juries, but I have long experience with them and they are very interested in when they recess for the day.

 

The one telling aspect of this grand jury process is the fact that they chose to NOT hear from the coach. Any defense attorney worth his salt will tell you that it is EXTREMELY rare for a defendant who knows his case is being presented to request to testify, and in most cases we recommend that they do not do so. Here, the defense offered to present the Coach's version of the case. Its a landmark, never-before-been-done-in-this-country indicmtent. Why not hear from him? Because someone, in all likelihood your honest prosecutor, told them they didn't have to and didn't need to, that's why. There is your open and honest grand jury process.

 

I have quite a bit of experience with grand juries myself. There is no obligation for a prosecutor to have the defendent testify or even present exculpatory evidence in a grand jury and it absolutely does not mean the prosecutor is acting dishonestly by doing not doing so or is trying to undermine the grand jury process. The purpose of the grand jury is to determine whether there is probable cause for a crime to be charged - not determine if the subject is guilty, not to present every single piece of evidence the investigation has developed to that point, and and not to hold an entire trial. But simply to see whether on the surface there appears to be some legitimacy to charge the person. To impune this prosecutor at this point for presenting the case is premature and offbase.

I have carefully gone through all the posts in this thread. Obviously no one is hoping this coach did anything criminal, but I find it interesting that many have already predetermined that there is no possible way he's guilty in this case simply because he was a good person who coached kids and didn't want this to happen. I don't think any of that is in dispute. But the reality is that good people make criminal mistakes all the time. Our jails our full of "good" people who broke the law one time. Of course, neither should the man be held guilty solely because a tragic event occurred under his watch and because he put his players through some intense conditioning. I have no earthly idea if he's guilty. I hope not. But neither does anyone else in this thread. We don't know all the facts in this case. We know small pieces of information, misinformation, supposition, inneundo, and rumor. Let the facts play out. Our criminal justice system (usually) works.

I have quite a bit of experience with grand juries myself. There is no obligation for a prosecutor to have the defendent testify or even present exculpatory evidence in a grand jury and it absolutely does not mean the prosecutor is acting dishonestly by doing not doing so or is trying to undermine the grand jury process. The purpose of the grand jury is to determine whether there is probable cause for a crime to be charged - not determine if the subject is guilty, not to present every single piece of evidence the investigation has developed to that point, and and not to hold an entire trial. But simply to see whether on the surface there appears to be some legitimacy to charge the person. To impune this prosecutor at this point for presenting the case is premature and offbase.

 

Everything you say is correct, but in a case such as this, a first nationally, why would you NOT allow the coach to testify? Why would you NOT present the exculpatory evidence? If the intent was, as the "he did not make a recommendation" comment is clearly attempting to convey, that the JCCA's did not wish to have a dog in the fight and just wanted the grand jury to act independently, why would you not give them those things? They clearly bear upon probable cause. No, I stand by my statements questioning the independence and integrity of this particular prosecution.

I have carefully gone through all the posts in this thread. Obviously no one is hoping this coach did anything criminal, but I find it interesting that many have already predetermined that there is no possible way he's guilty in this case simply because he was a good person who coached kids and didn't want this to happen. I don't think any of that is in dispute. But the reality is that good people make criminal mistakes all the time. Our jails our full of "good" people who broke the law one time. Of course, neither should the man be held guilty solely because a tragic event occurred under his watch and because he put his players through some intense conditioning. I have no earthly idea if he's guilty. I hope not. But neither does anyone else in this thread. We don't know all the facts in this case. We know small pieces of information, misinformation, supposition, inneundo, and rumor. Let the facts play out. Our criminal justice system (usually) works.

 

There are other questions unanswered that I have, though, before I'm ready to assume he's guilty. Why was an autopsy not done? That's the biggest one. Wouldn't that have answered a ton of questions? It would have been the first thing I would have demanded as a parent. And I don't know the law that well in this sort of case, but if the possibility existed that a criminal case could come out of it, why didn't the police/investigators, order an autopsy?

That's what the heat index guidelines are for and why the heat index has to be checked every 30 mins. There is no hard and fast time rules that make the heat index predictable. The heat index could possibly be higher at 7:00 pm than at 2:30. How do I know? I have been in charge of heat index readings for a football team for the past 3 years. I'm also a science teacher.

 

Every day is different, due to the humidity levels in the air. Combine that with the temperature and the combined number is what you must look at to determine if there is a plausible risk of heat related illness.

How many times is the temps and heat index at 95 at 6am or 8pm? What is so hard at having practices at those times? High school and grade school games should only be in the mid morning or late evening, NO AFTERNOON GAMES until college when kids are fully grown and maybe better to physically and mentally handle heat and humidity.

Everything you say is correct, but in a case such as this, a first nationally, why would you NOT allow the coach to testify? Why would you NOT present the exculpatory evidence? If the intent was, as the "he did not make a recommendation" comment is clearly attempting to convey, that the JCCA's did not wish to have a dog in the fight and just wanted the grand jury to act independently, why would you not give them those things? They clearly bear upon probable cause. No, I stand by my statements questioning the independence and integrity of this particular prosecution.

 

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On a side note, what actions, if any, are available to the coach should this be thrown out? Just by indicting him they have dealt a tremendous blow to his future, guilty or otherwise.

 

Coop, the problem with "just letting the justice system play itself out" is that it has secondary effects on his career. Just in the same manner as being publicly indicted for having affairs with a student. It doesn't have to be true and you may be cleared of all charges, but that sure isn't going to help you with your next interview.

How many times is the temps and heat index at 95 at 6am or 8pm? What is so hard at having practices at those times? High school and grade school games should only be in the mid morning or late evening, NO AFTERNOON GAMES until college when kids are fully grown and maybe better to physically and mentally handle heat and humidity.

 

Think about that though. How feasible is it for parents to bring kids to school at 6am, pick them up at 9am, bring them back at 8pm and pick them up at 11pm? There are plenty of schools that would have major trouble getting people to practice. And how would you incorporate that into school? Would you practice at 8pm and have your kids not get home until 11 on a school night?

 

The heat index is usually the highest around 4 or 5pm. It is essential that the players practice in the heat because the HIGHEST risk for heat related illness/injury is likely to be one of their first two games. IMO the real problem is that the buck has been passed so many times as to who is responsible for monitoring the conditons and there is very little formal training on the subject across the board.

There are other questions unanswered that I have, though, before I'm ready to assume he's guilty. Why was an autopsy not done? That's the biggest one. Wouldn't that have answered a ton of questions? It would have been the first thing I would have demanded as a parent. And I don't know the law that well in this sort of case, but if the possibility existed that a criminal case could come out of it, why didn't the police/investigators, order an autopsy?

Agree 100%.

How many times is the temps and heat index at 95 at 6am or 8pm? What is so hard at having practices at those times? High school and grade school games should only be in the mid morning or late evening, NO AFTERNOON GAMES until college when kids are fully grown and maybe better to physically and mentally handle heat and humidity.

 

What is so hard about having practices within the bounds of KHSAA's regulations?

 

Many boys have summer jobs in which they earn money for their vehicles, their football camp, their school clothes, etc. Some start before 8 am. Also, in many schools (such as mine) many of the assistant coaches aren't school employees and have a regular year round 8-4 job.

 

I'll say it again. Part of the coach's job is to ensure that he is getting his team acclimated to the heat and physical nature of the games. Some of that involved practicing when it is hot and humid.

 

IMO, each team's coaches have to determine the best situation for them. In my team's case, we follow the KHSAA guidelines to the letter and beyond. We've been known to practice in our (somewhat) air conditioned gym when the heat index is too high. We did that a lot the year before last.

 

Unforeseen events happen. Whether the loss of this young man is related to the heat or a pre-existing condition remains to be seen...and may not be seen, due to the lack of an autopsy.

How many times is the temps and heat index at 95 at 6am or 8pm? What is so hard at having practices at those times? High school and grade school games should only be in the mid morning or late evening, NO AFTERNOON GAMES until college when kids are fully grown and maybe better to physically and mentally handle heat and humidity.

 

6 AM not so much, but during the evening, if it doesn't rain, and honestly sometimes even worse if it does the heat index get's crazy. I'm not a meteorlogist, but I did grow up wanting to be one for a good while. The weather fascinates me, and so just like some dork with no life I keep track of this stuff as well. You'd be surprised, often times people think just because the sun is gone that it's fair game; isn't always the case.

The truth is there are a lot of facts either unknown or not released. I am glad I am not in the situation to have to make a decision in this case. My heart breaks for the parents, the pain they are feeling now is overwhelming. To a lesser extent I feel for the coach. I am sure he is also hurting.

6 AM not so much, but during the evening, if it doesn't rain, and honestly sometimes even worse if it does the heat index get's crazy. I'm not a meteorlogist, but I did grow up wanting to be one for a good while. The weather fascinates me, and so just like some dork with no life I keep track of this stuff as well. You'd be surprised, often times people think just because the sun is gone that it's fair game; isn't always the case.

 

You are correct about the craziness of the heat index. It truly may NOT go down as the temperature does. The lower the temperature, the more water the air can hold, so usually as the temp goes down, the humidity level goes up...so your heat index may NOT change and sometimes goes up! That's why you have to take it every 30 minutes. It's not as simple as saying "let's practice at these times and we are okay." You can practice at any time, just taking the heat index requirements into your plan.

This might be a little off topic, but it deals with heat issues. When the KHSAA moved the start of the season back a week it didn't address heat issues with practice. They should have left the start of the season alone and said you can't play any games until 8pm the first 3 weeks of the season. That is when it starts to cool off.

 

I am not sure what can be done for Practice other than to mandate no practice between the hours of 10am and 7pm. This would keep kids out of most of the heat.

 

This is a sad situation. I just hope some good comes out of all this. I am not sure what that will be.

This might be a little off topic, but it deals with heat issues. When the KHSAA moved the start of the season back a week it didn't address heat issues with practice. They should have left the start of the season alone and said you can't play any games until 8pm the first 3 weeks of the season. That is when it starts to cool off.

 

I am not sure what can be done for Practice other than to mandate no practice between the hours of 10am and 7pm. This would keep kids out of most of the heat.

 

This is a sad situation. I just hope some good comes out of all this. I am not sure what that will be.

 

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