RAM, I also know a lot about the court system. I understand what you are saying about prosecutors giving into public pressure. I also understand the judge may not have enough guts to do the right thing in hopes the jury will bail him out. This just supports my opinion that the parents are being victimized by the court, and in some manner the community. This was an innocent child who was only playing football for his high school team at the time of his death.

 

I have tried to argue my position, but either I am not very persuasive or I am totally wrong. I don't think I am wrong. In an earlier post in this thread, before the coaches statements, I acknowledged the coaches pain. I know he hurts, but he is not a victim. I think it makes us all feel good to think we all suffer when a child dies, and it's true we do for a short period of time. But time eases our pain. In a few years coaches, teachers, classmates, and even teammates will be fine. But in a few years the parents will think of Max every minute of every day, and it will never get better.

 

Again, I disagreed with the indictment from the beginning. I didn’t think there was any evidence to support it. I also believe the coach is a victim. But not a victim of the death. He is a victim of the court system.

 

This simply isn't true. I can name a good many coaches that would hang up their life's passion if they were responsible for the death of one of their players.

 

Here is the definition of a victim:

 

vic·tim (vĭk'tĭm) Pronunciation Key

n.

One who is harmed or killed by another: a victim of a mugging.

A living creature slain and offered as a sacrifice during a religious rite.

One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition: victims of war.

A person who suffers injury, loss, or death as a result of a voluntary undertaking: You are a victim of your own scheming.

A person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of: the victim of a cruel hoax.

 

Now I totally agree with you about the court. The difference is that EVERYONE is being victimized by this. It would be best for all if they were allowed to greive in peace.

Edited January 28, 200917 yr by Under the Lights

This is my limited understanding of Creatine, right or wrong. There is always two sides to everything.

 

Creatine has been blamed for dehydration when that probably isn't true. It draws water away from the organs to the muscle cells and if you don't drink enough water while taking it you can experience stomach cramps which can be mistaken for dehydration. There are those that claim it causes dehydration but that just doesn't make sense to me. If it cause the muscle cells to hold water how can it dehydrate you? If you take creatine with plenty of water you shouldn't have any issues.

 

That's the thing is too many kids don't drink enough water with it. Alot will drink pop and or other stuff besides water. I've taken creatine and have had problems with it and cramping or feeling dehydrated when I was younger. When I was in high school I also got really bad nose bleeds when taking it which also was reason enough for me to stop taking it.

But if you take creatine and you are engaging in strenous exercise, and thus sweating out that much needed water, then it can become an issue. I should rephrase what I said. Creatine does not CAUSE dehydration, but it can exacerbate a dehydration problem by drawing water away from where it is vitally needed.

 

Taken with plenty of water there should be no issues, I agree. But for athletes that are frequently dehydrated during the normal course of practice, it can be a cause for concern.

 

Exactly, alot of experts say that you shouldn't take creatine when you're actually competing or practicing for a sport. Should be more used for off season use when you're trying to build strength not while competing. If the young man had quit taking creatine in July that could be part of the reason why he did.

Again, I disagreed with the indictment from the beginning. I didn’t think there was any evidence to support it. I also believe the coach is a victim. But not a victim of the death. He is a victim of the court system.

This we can agree on completely.

Creatine did not cause this young man to die!! You can ask any doctor and they will say its not possible. Creatine will cause you to cramp up badly and dehydrate you. That is why you should quit taking it around 1-2 weeks before practice. It is very easy to get out of your system.

Creatine did not cause this young man to die!! You can ask any doctor and they will say its not possible. Creatine will cause you to cramp up badly and dehydrate you. That is why you should quit taking it around 1-2 weeks before practice. It is very easy to get out of your system.

 

If it caused him to dehydrate before he recognized the signs, then it might have caused him to die.

The whole topic of Creatine, as a supplement, might best be explored in a new thread. There is a lot of information on this topic that I was unaware of and that I am sure many teenagers do not know about.

 

We cannot make assumptions as to cause of death in this case. No matter what happened it is tragic for everyone, and I mean everyone, involved.

The lawyers for the Plaintiffs in the wrongful death civil case are trying to force Stinson to give deposition testimony.

 

http://www.wlky.com/video/18465410/index.html

 

As you all know, when a person is indicted he has the right to invoke the 5th Amendment and not testify against himself. I don't think he'll be forced to give a deposition here, although the law is somewhat up in the air on this particular issue.

 

I would note that Stinson spoke voluntarily to both LMPD and to JCPS investigators, and those statements have been furnished. He also offered to testify under oath before the grand jury, and I am sure that the Plaintiffs' attorney and family could have had some influence with the prosecutor had they really wanted that testimony.

 

The civil case is already scheduled for trial and has been ongoing for 4 months. The criminal case just started and no trial date is set. Does this smack of trying to twist Stinson's arm on coughing up money by using a criminal indictment?

 

Fifth Amendment protections have been deemed to apply to civil proceedings in those circumstances in which the person reasonably believes that his disclosures could be used in a criminal prosecution. The risk is that, in a civil case, adverse inferences can be drawn from the party’s refusal to testify. I could not imagine, however, that the civil court judge would not order a stay of the civil proceeding pending completion of the criminal investigation or trial.

We cannot make assumptions as to cause of death in this case. No matter what happened it is tragic for everyone, and I mean everyone, involved.

 

I can't help but think the bolded was intended for me. I understand people hurt. It is a tragedy when a child passes away, and the community is affected. I don't doubt that. I don't doubt the coach feels very bad. But he lost "one of his boys", the parents lost a child. He lost one of his boys he had for a couple of hours a day for a few months. The parents lost a child they gave birth to, shared special times with, raised to young adulthood, and planned for his future. He lost a potential player, the parents lost a future of watching their child grow, eventually becoming a man, they lost their baby boy.

I know we all hurt over this situation, but the truth is in three years the only time you will feel bad about this is when you are forced to remember. The parents will think of their son and not only mourn his death, but miss his company for the rest of their lives. They will think of him every minute of every day for the rest of their lives.

I just think it is disrespectful to put yourself on a level anywhere near the parents. To make a statement like the coach made, at the time and under the circumstances he made it, is clearly self serving.

But then again you probably know more than me.

Fatman, we've been through this before. Many of us can empathize with the coach and what he is going through. It's okay if you don't. However, we ALL feel for the parents and can't begin to imagine what the parents are going through unless we have lost a child.

Fatman, we've been through this before. Many of us can empathize with the coach and what he is going through. It's okay if you don't. However, we ALL feel for the parents and can't begin to imagine what the parents are going through unless we have lost a child.

 

I also empathized with the coach. I have said many times I don't think he is guilty of this offense. I have a problem with his statements. I find them self serving. I know we have been through this before and I was through with it. PureFan brought me back into it with his/hers statement.

If it makes everybody feel better to say they hurt then say it. But don't try to equate your pain and suffering and that of the coach with that of the parents. That is what I feel the coach did. That is what I find offensive.

And don't discount someone else's perspective on this situation.

I also empathized with the coach. I have said many times I don't think he is guilty of this offense. I have a problem with his statements. I find them self serving. I know we have been through this before and I was through with it. PureFan brought me back into it with his/hers statement.

If it makes everybody feel better to say they hurt then say it. But don't try to equate your pain and suffering and that of the coach with that of the parents. That is what I feel the coach did. That is what I find offensive.

And don't discount someone else's perspective on this situation.

 

Isn't this what you are doing with the coach? You don't want him to show any amount of what he is feeling as regards his own loss. He never said in any way that his loss was on the same level as the parents...just that he has experienced a loss to.

 

I appreciate your honest opinion. I truly mean that. Discussion is important. :thumb:

Fifth Amendment protections have been deemed to apply to civil proceedings in those circumstances in which the person reasonably believes that his disclosures could be used in a criminal prosecution. The risk is that, in a civil case, adverse inferences can be drawn from the party’s refusal to testify. I could not imagine, however, that the civil court judge would not order a stay of the civil proceeding pending completion of the criminal investigation or trial.

 

Probably not. I think the court will grant a defense motion for protective order for any discovery from the defendant, but I don't think the discovery process will stop. Witness depositions will still be taken and records subpoenaed, which will be used later in the criminal case. Happens quite frequently, actually. The civil judge will have discretion, though.