Everything you say is correct, but in a case such as this, a first nationally, why would you NOT allow the coach to testify? Why would you NOT present the exculpatory evidence? If the intent was, as the "he did not make a recommendation" comment is clearly attempting to convey, that the JCCA's did not wish to have a dog in the fight and just wanted the grand jury to act independently, why would you not give them those things? They clearly bear upon probable cause. No, I stand by my statements questioning the independence and integrity of this particular prosecution.

 

The purpose of the grand jury is not to make the case for the defense and it absolutely does not mean there has been any misconduct on the part of the prosecutor if he did not do so (and you don't actually know if he did or not - you only know that he choose not to have the coach testify). When you start presenting exculpatory evidence others factors come into play and then people start the inevitable questioning - "He didn't present the 'right' exculpatory evidience"; "He didn't present 'all' the exculpatory evidence; "He didn't present the evidence in the proper way"; "He gave more attention/effort into the inculpatory rather than exculpatory evidence"; and on and on. No way is this prosecutor going to blindly and ruthlessly bludgeon through an indictment in a high profile case like this unless there was indeed some evidence indicating that the elements of the crime were met. Not that they WERE met, only that there is probable cause at this point to believe that charging the person was appropriate. And I'll stand by my belief that any claims at this point that this prosecutor is acting dishonestly, maliciously, or even criminally are way off base.

There are other questions unanswered that I have, though, before I'm ready to assume he's guilty. Why was an autopsy not done? That's the biggest one. Wouldn't that have answered a ton of questions? It would have been the first thing I would have demanded as a parent. And I don't know the law that well in this sort of case, but if the possibility existed that a criminal case could come out of it, why didn't the police/investigators, order an autopsy?

 

I don't assume he's guilty. In fact, I'll assume he's innocent until a court decides otherwise. What I won't do is absolutely and uneviqually proclaim his innocence simply because he is a good man who coached and care about kids and didn't want for this to happen (all of which I'm sure is true, but has no real bearing on the crime for which he's being charged).

 

As far as the autopsy, I have no idea. I guess we'll find out in due time.

:thumb:

 

On a side note, what actions, if any, are available to the coach should this be thrown out? Just by indicting him they have dealt a tremendous blow to his future, guilty or otherwise.

 

Coop, the problem with "just letting the justice system play itself out" is that it has secondary effects on his career. Just in the same manner as being publicly indicted for having affairs with a student. It doesn't have to be true and you may be cleared of all charges, but that sure isn't going to help you with your next interview.

 

So where did the justice system go wrong to this point? A police investigation of some sort apparently developed some evidence which the prosecutor felt met the elements of a reckless homicide charge. Doesn't mean he's guilty of it, only that he might be. So he presents this evidence to a grand jury, who agrees that there is indeed probable cause for charges to be brought forward. So are you angry with the grand jurors also or just this "wayward" prosecutor? The defense will have their opportunity to fully respond and tell the world why this coach was not guilty of this crime and will not have to rely on the prosecutor to do so (since it's not really his job). And once and for all, all the rumors and speculation and distortions will be put to rest.

 

I'll tell you one thing - if I'm an innocent man wrongly accused of a crime, I'd sure rather be standing trial here in this country than any other place in the world. It may not be perfect, but it's a far sight better than a lot of other places.

This might be a little off topic, but it deals with heat issues. When the KHSAA moved the start of the season back a week it didn't address heat issues with practice. They should have left the start of the season alone and said you can't play any games until 8pm the first 3 weeks of the season. That is when it starts to cool off.

 

I am not sure what can be done for Practice other than to mandate no practice between the hours of 10am and 7pm. This would keep kids out of most of the heat.

 

This is a sad situation. I just hope some good comes out of all this. I am not sure what that will be.

Coach, so glad someone else on here agrees with me about a simple solution to this problem, can't ever remember a 95 degree morning before 9am or a 95 degree evening after 7pm in the state of Kentucky, 80's probably yes.

Think about that though. How feasible is it for parents to bring kids to school at 6am, pick them up at 9am, bring them back at 8pm and pick them up at 11pm? There are plenty of schools that would have major trouble getting people to practice. And how would you incorporate that into school? Would you practice at 8pm and have your kids not get home until 11 on a school night?

 

The heat index is usually the highest around 4 or 5pm. It is essential that the players practice in the heat because the HIGHEST risk for heat related illness/injury is likely to be one of their first two games. IMO the real problem is that the buck has been passed so many times as to who is responsible for monitoring the conditons and there is very little formal training on the subject across the board.

On the show 2- A- days that aired on MTV about high school football in Alabama, when they had 2 a day practices, the first one was always in morning at 6 am before school, the kids just went to practice, took shower and went to class, they all made it, be it car pools,coaches,etc. And as far as evening practice, 7-9 on a school night is very appropriate, we do that now with 4th grade basketball. And as stated, before should never ever be afternoon games in August or September. Evenings only, 7:30 start or Saturday mornings.

Coach, so glad someone else on here agrees with me about a simple solution to this problem, can't ever remember a 95 degree morning before 9am or a 95 degree evening after 7pm in the state of Kentucky, 80's probably yes.

 

It's not about the temperature. It's about the heat index. You could have a temperature under 90 degrees and have a heat index over 100.

Watched MSNBC earlier and this is getting a lot of coverage. They even mentioned the discussion being generated on public message boards, regarding this incident.

 

The discussion was also about being a precedent setting case, as per MSNBC panel this has never gone to civil/criminal litigation, in High School or College ever.

No autopsy is a big question for me.

So where did the justice system go wrong to this point? A police investigation of some sort apparently developed some evidence which the prosecutor felt met the elements of a reckless homicide charge. Doesn't mean he's guilty of it, only that he might be. So he presents this evidence to a grand jury, who agrees that there is indeed probable cause for charges to be brought forward. So are you angry with the grand jurors also or just this "wayward" prosecutor? The defense will have their opportunity to fully respond and tell the world why this coach was not guilty of this crime and will not have to rely on the prosecutor to do so (since it's not really his job). And once and for all, all the rumors and speculation and distortions will be put to rest.

 

I'll tell you one thing - if I'm an innocent man wrongly accused of a crime, I'd sure rather be standing trial here in this country than any other place in the world. It may not be perfect, but it's a far sight better than a lot of other places.

 

I'm not angry with anyone. I understand that he will have his day in court and will have the opportunity to prove himself. But as you and I well know, the accusation and subsequent indictment has a much more profound effect than if he is cleared of all charges. It doesn't have to be true to be damaging to the rest of his career. The thing that will stick out is not that he was cleared of all charges, but that he was indicted and accused. You only get accused of rape once, then your a rapist. Same concept.

 

I guess my beef with this is that there is no autopsy, no testimony from the defendant, and yet there is an indictment? That seems flimsy at best (granted I do not know all the details). It just has the look and feel of a trial by the court of public opinion.

I guess for those of you that set through the 1hour and 2 hour classes to get a degree in physical education and said at the time I am not going to be a doctor why should I have Kineseolgy, Anatomy, Physiology, Physiology of activity, conditioning and biomedics, strength training and conditioining, periodization for all sports are seeing the effect of being able to defend yourself on the stand. Today so many times coaches are hired by site based councils that do not have a clue, so guess what many coaches do not have a clue as well. This is pobably not the case with Mr. Stinson, but it should raise questions about the entire coaching profession. In 1991 I was a college coach on a Division I staff (affirmitive action hit) 2 minority coaches were placed on every college football staff in America no matter their qualifications, and many good coaches left the profession in other words qualifications did not mean anything just the color of one's skin. This is just another example of how our society has let those be in charge without the background to do so. I wish Mr. Stinson, the family, and every coach in America the best. Without teams and team work are society will diminish even more.

On the show 2- A- days that aired on MTV about high school football in Alabama, when they had 2 a day practices, the first one was always in morning at 6 am before school, the kids just went to practice, took shower and went to class, they all made it, be it car pools,coaches,etc. And as far as evening practice, 7-9 on a school night is very appropriate, we do that now with 4th grade basketball. And as stated, before should never ever be afternoon games in August or September. Evenings only, 7:30 start or Saturday mornings.

 

On that same show they practiced directly after school as well....in Alabama. And, from first hand experience, I can tell you that the heat index was well over 95 at 7PM on a dozen or so occasions last summer. I think you are misunderstanding the heat index concept. It is entirely likely that the 105 degree weather in Arizona has a lower heat index than when it is 95 here with all the humidity. 88 degrees at 70% humidity gives you a heat index of 100.

 

During the summer it is difficult for transportation reasons, summer jobs, and a restriction on the entire day for the athlete and parents to have them go early in the morning and late at night. We already hear so much about how sports take up too much of kids time, how they have little to no time for vacations, etc. We'll agree to disagree in terms of practicing from 7-9 at night. What about light? Would teams practice on game fields? What additional costs are incurred there and how would that be paid? Not to mention study time, family dinners, and other extracurricular activities, and of course there is proper sleep as well.

 

There is no perfect solution to this, IMO the best way might be to look at Texas, Florida, etc. and see what they are doing.

Coach, so glad someone else on here agrees with me about a simple solution to this problem, can't ever remember a 95 degree morning before 9am or a 95 degree evening after 7pm in the state of Kentucky, 80's probably yes.

 

 

:thumb:

It's not about the temperature. It's about the heat index. You could have a temperature under 90 degrees and have a heat index over 100.

 

 

I agree with you, but before 9am and after 7am not sure if we have any nights with heat index over 100.

 

KHSAA has to look at away to protect players and coaches from this heat issue.

 

I say do away with 2-A- day practice. I have coached for a long time and not sure how much you really get out of going twice a day.

I'm not angry with anyone. I understand that he will have his day in court and will have the opportunity to prove himself. But as you and I well know, the accusation and subsequent indictment has a much more profound effect than if he is cleared of all charges. It doesn't have to be true to be damaging to the rest of his career. The thing that will stick out is not that he was cleared of all charges, but that he was indicted and accused. You only get accused of rape once, then your a rapist. Same concept.

 

I guess my beef with this is that there is no autopsy, no testimony from the defendant, and yet there is an indictment? That seems flimsy at best (granted I do not know all the details). It just has the look and feel of a trial by the court of public opinion.

 

I don't disagree with your first paragraph, if that is indeed the way this thing plays out.

 

But please - please - understand that it is NOT at all unusual or wrong for there to have been an indictment without the defendant's testimony. In fact, it would be far, far more unusual to actually hear from the defendant during the grand jury. (I have testified dozens and dozens of times in front of the grand jury on my cases and do not recall a single case in which the defendant testified). Obviously the grand jury did hear some evidence that was compelling enough to make them believe that it was appropriate to move forward with charges. It doesn't mean there is enough to convict someone or that the defense won't ultimately be able to refute the prosecution's evidence, just that there was probable cause at this point to believe a crime was committed. I cannot speak to the issue of an autopsy. It does strike me as odd, but until someone knows the real facts why one was not obtained, it isn't accurate to ascribe it to some type of misconduct or underhandedness on the part of police or the prosecutor's office.

I guess for those of you that set through the 1hour and 2 hour classes to get a degree in physical education and said at the time I am not going to be a doctor why should I have Kineseolgy, Anatomy, Physiology, Physiology of activity, conditioning and biomedics, strength training and conditioining, periodization for all sports are seeing the effect of being able to defend yourself on the stand. Today so many times coaches are hired by site based councils that do not have a clue, so guess what many coaches do not have a clue as well. This is pobably not the case with Mr. Stinson, but it should raise questions about the entire coaching profession. In 1991 I was a college coach on a Division I staff (affirmitive action hit) 2 minority coaches were placed on every college football staff in America no matter their qualifications, and many good coaches left the profession in other words qualifications did not mean anything just the color of one's skin. This is just another example of how our society has let those be in charge without the background to do so. I wish Mr. Stinson, the family, and every coach in America the best. Without teams and team work are society will diminish even more.

 

I'm not going to touch your comments as regards being slighted because of affirmitive action. I feel that they have no place in this discussion.

 

Coaches in Kentucky are not just someone who can put the X's and O's down on paper and wear a whistle around their neck. They have standards that they must follow from the KHSAA. These include yearly medical symposiums and first aid/CPR trainings. You don't have to understand the science behind the heat index and how it affects the body to take the measurement and follow the guidelines on how to proceed with practice at each level. You don't have to understand the physiology of the circulatory system to be able to recognize the signs of heat related illnesses and take the appropriate measures to relieve symptoms.

 

Just as in all professions, there will be those that somehow slip through the cracks. We don't know if that is the reason here. Without an autopsy, I doubt that we will ever know.