No offense, but isn't this what you are doing right here?

I'm not offended Sir... :lol:

 

The fact is, I have spent the better part of 40 years reading, learning and understanding the best that ardent evolutionists have had to throw at me. I am openly and actively seeking the truth whether I am comfortable with how it fits my worldview or not.

 

Whether I agree with evolutionist's/materialist's interpretation of the same evidence I might look at and draw a differrent conclusion... the fact is I do at least read and understand the evolutionist's viewpoint. I do not believe the same can be said of many on the other side of this issue.

 

I do so enjoy being called a "flat earther" when the Bible is the only ancient text that actually stated that the earth is a sphere. It was the view of "science" of the day that the earth was flat.

 

I do so enjoy being called a narrow minded fundamentalist, when it was the Bible that first indicated that the universe actually had a beginning. It was the view of science for millennia that the universe was fixed and eternal, neither expanding nor contracting. It wasn't until Einstein's theory in 1913 and Edwin Hubble's observations in the late 1920s that the expanding universe was confirmed and the Big Bang became a familiar concept.

 

I am aware of numerous scenarios where serious scientists with excellent credentials have been denied publication, or roundly jeered by materialist colleagues simply because their findings fall outside the accepted comfort zone of neo-Darwinian evolutionary dogma. No attempt is even made to assess the information on its merits. The entire thesis is cast aside simply because of its intelligent design implications.

 

This is not science, it is ideology... another word for religion.

I fully expect to get skewered by certain posters for this, but here goes...

 

I actually believe that God created mankind in His image... spiritual beings that operate on faith... for His companionship. I realize that compared to God, we are not as advanced as the ants are to a child in a child's ant farm, but apparently there's more to all this than we are able to understand at this point in time.

 

I do not believe that God required 13.7 billion years to form the universe as we see it today. I do not believe that God required the earth to percolate for 4.5 billion years to become what we reside upon today. He certainly could have taken all the time He wanted because time has no bearing on God. In the same sense, He could have done all this 10 minutes ago. The point is, God is not bound by time, matter and natural laws.

 

As a Christian, I fully believe the teaching of Jesus Christ and the divinity He embraced and never denied.

 

John chapter one informs us:

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

 

10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

 

From this we are told:

 

Jesus is not a created being, but an eternal being of the same substance as God.

 

Jesus is our Creator.

 

Later in John, Jesus calls us His friends in a variety of contexts:

 

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

 

John 15:14

You are my friends if you do what I command.

 

John 15:15

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

 

So, to a simple Christian, the Creator of the universe is calling me His friend. I certainly want to be His friend... even though I cannot possibly understand what I have to offer Him as His friend.

 

As a dad however, I don’t want all that much from my children other than their love and companionship. I’m one of those weird parents that actually enjoys spending time with my children. Rather than spending their money on me, I really, really enjoy it when they are good to each other.

 

I have to believe it’s much the same with God. There is nothing material we can give Him He really needs… but we can give Him our hearts, our time and our talents. We can treat our brothers and sisters with respect and love. When we “Love the Lord our God with all our heart and with all our soul and with all our mind and with all our strength” and we “Love our neighbor as ourself” we are doing what Jesus commanded us, and in His own words we are His friends.

 

Friendship of this magnitude doesn’t require 13.7 billion years to occur… but if it does, that’s one amazing love story.

 

I don't think that Fastbreak (nor I when I affirmed what he said) was trying to imply the truth of Deism (God as a clockmaker). I think all that he was saying (and I) is something like, in the same way that we have free will and are not simply pawns in God's game, God created the world and allowed His creation to take its course.

 

I haven't given much thought to his parallel but let me throw it out there. There is a verse in the Bible that says "and Jesus grew in age and wisdom" I have heard some people who were troubled by this verse because, if Jesus is God, then why would he need to grow in wisdom? Now I realize that the answer deals with the 3 different types of knowledge, but simply put God did not create Jesus the infant to be born with earthly knowledge. I can only assume that out of the womb He did not come out preaching- rather, Mary and Joseph had to teach him to talk, how to walk, etc.

 

Likewise, God created everything and let it grow. This is no way is saying that there is not a personal God- I believe that as well as you do- just that it is entirely plausible and (to me) even more likely that rather than doing instantaneous creation (while I realize that He could), He allowed His creation to grow according to its own.

FWIW, I realize that this may very well be what you are getting at. Just trying to be clear. I also realize that no one may care about this at all.

 

If I was trying to get at what you said, I'm not smart enough to realize it.

What is 13 billion years to God. God exists in the eternal now so discussions of length of time are a bit silly.

 

Just now God created man

Just now Christ died for me

Just now I serve God

 

There is no past or future for God only the NOW

 

I AM the great I AM

Add me to the list of evolution-believing Christians. :thumb:

 

Count me in also!

What is 13 billion years to God. God exists in the eternal now so discussions of length of time are a bit silly.

 

Just now God created man

Just now Christ died for me

Just now I serve God

 

There is no past or future for God only the NOW

 

I AM the great I AM

 

I agree. The present is now for God whether it is the past, the present or the future.

My question for those who believe in God, and who even believe in the God of the Bible...

 

"How is it you are able to believe in a supernatural being capable of forming and putting into motion something as infinitessimally complex as our universe, but cannot believe that He is also capable of rendering something so relatively simple as a "first hand" account of how He did it through selected members of His creation?"

 

As much as many want to slam and discredit it, the Bible is the most accurate ancient text known in regard to "scientific accuracy" from the earth being a sphere suspended in space, to the moon reflecting sunlight rather than generating its own light, to the unique "speciation" of plants and animals, and so on.

Add me to the list of evolution-believing Christians. :thumb:

Me too. :thumb:

 

I see evolution, not as the process of creation, but the result of it. It's the thunder from an unseen storm. It's like a hand-print on a window.

 

Things happen every day that we believe to be an "act of God." These events happen within the parameters of the natural world as we understand it...yet we believe that God's hand made them happen. So why should creation be any different?

 

I believe science can take us to the edge of the universe and the first instant of time. But inevitably there will come a threshold which it can never cross. That's where nature ends...and where God begins.

Edited January 19, 200917 yr by Birdsfan

My question for those who believe in God, and who even believe in the God of the Bible...

 

"How is it you are able to believe in a supernatural being capable of forming and putting into motion something as infinitessimally complex as our universe, but cannot believe that He is also capable of rendering something so relatively simple as a "first hand" account of how He did it through selected members of His creation?"

 

As much as many want to slam and discredit it, the Bible is the most accurate ancient text known in regard to "scientific accuracy" from the earth being a sphere suspended in space, to the moon reflecting sunlight rather than generating its own light, to the unique "speciation" of plants and animals, and so on.

 

I take the Bible very seriously however I'm curious what passages you might be referring to in the above paragraph.

 

I'm not sure Joshua 10 gives a "scientific" explanation of events in a particular battle:

 

12 On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel:

"O sun, stand still over Gibeon,

O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."

 

13 So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

Is it time for high school football yet???

Can't disagree that our culture and even many Christian Churches do not reflect Jesus's teachings......but how is it wrong to say that Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

 

 

Maybe I'm just brainwashed.....

 

Perhaps because their god,Mohammed, was merely a man and the God that true Christians worship is also the suffering Savior who died for our sins and rose again and is living at the right hand of the Father. He is man, yet God, the creator of the universe, the Sovereign, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Alpha and Omega . . . and the list goes on. Mohammed is none of these. BIG DIFFERENCE and if this is not politically correct, then so be it.

Perhaps because their god,Mohammed, was merely a man and the God that true Christians worship is also the suffering Savior who died for our sins and rose again and is living at the right hand of the Father. He is man, yet God, the creator of the universe, the Sovereign, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Alpha and Omega . . . and the list goes on. Mohammed is none of these. BIG DIFFERENCE and if this is not politically correct, then so be it.

 

That first statement reveals how little you really now about Islam. You might want to bone up before trying to speak as if you do. :thumb:

 

That said, like you, I believe in Jesus as the Son of the living God. I do not see Allah and Yahweh as the same. JMHO.

BTW The Church is not in any way, shape, or form against homosexuals. The Church is against the "things" done by some homosexuals. What your doing is taking everything and moving it to a complete Darwinist way. Creation and everything doesn't have to be interpreted completely literally from the Bible, but you have to understand the main message. What your doing is taking creationist theories and just destroying them.

BTW The Church is not in any way, shape, or form against homosexuals. The Church is against the "things" done by some homosexuals. What your doing is taking everything and moving it to a complete Darwinist way. Creation and everything doesn't have to be interpreted completely literally from the Bible, but you have to understand the main message. What your doing is taking creationist theories and just destroying them.

 

Who is the "you" and "your" in your statements? :confused:

That first statement reveals how little you really now about Islam. You might want to bone up before trying to speak as if you do. :thumb:

 

That said, like you, I believe in Jesus as the Son of the living God. I do not see Allah and Yahweh as the same. JMHO.

 

Perhaps I should've said that they worship Allah through the prophet Mohammed but either way there is a huge difference. You got the point and I am sure the other posters did as well. However, I am sorry I offended you with my comments and ignorance. It is obvious that you are an expert in this area. I difer.