Holmes moving to 4A?

[ft bronc]

Folks, I promise that ft bronc is not me under some other name. He/she just happens to look at this issue exactly the same way, although I'm not sure it's educational reasons why students are leaving Scott. Heck, I have no idea why they are leaving Scott, but I can assure you that if I was the principal at Scott I'd be spending a lot of time trying to find out.

 

I'm not him, but I did stay at a Holidy Inn Express last night.

[cch5432]

Interesting thought that if Holmes moves down, CovCath and Highlands can as well.

[Jim Schue]

lneck,

 

I agree the timing is very poor. Holmes should have worked on this long ago to avoid putting multiple other schools in a bind just so Holmes could move down.

 

Think about it, not only do the 5A schools have to find replacement games, the 4A district schools have to boot a team off of their schedule and all of those schools that get booted have to find a replacement game too.

 

Wasn't this the main reason Mercer Co. was able to remain at 2A during their state championship year after consolidation? Same thing with the new Harlan Co. school? Seems like that precedent would hold in Holmes' case as well.

 

And to repeat myself from earlier, why should Holmes get this treatment when Fort Knox is in the same boat and has been denied a drop down?

[leatherneck]

Interesting thought that if Holmes moves down, CovCath and Highlands can as well.

 

Hard to say. Putting those three in 4A would mean forcing some out of the area 4A school to be added to the district if a minimum 4 team district remained a priority and incur the associated travel costs (although if Scott's enrollment is decreasing as suggested on here they would be the fourth team). Plus, if just Highlands, Dixie and CovCath were in 4A, it would leave just Scott and Dixie in the 5A district (and maybe just Dixie if Scott also left 5A) which would create forced increased transportation costs on Dixie.

 

But your point is a good one and I'd expect the KHSAA to look at the situation when they officially look at realignment for the seasons beginning with the 2011/2012 year. The 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 alignments are set (well sort of:D)

[leatherneck]

Wasn't this the main reason Mercer Co. was able to remain at 2A during their state championship year after consolidation? Same thing with the new Harlan Co. school? Seems like that precedent would hold in Holmes' case as well.

 

And to repeat myself from earlier, why should Holmes get this treatment when Fort Knox is in the same boat and has been denied a drop down?

 

Do you know what percent of decrease Ft. Knox has had from its current boys 2yr avg from the previous boys 2 yr avg? If it was a 12% drop, I'd agree with you that it should have been handled the same, particularly if a move by Ft. Knox wouldn't have created a 6 team district in its new class or created a 3 team district in its old class. While we posters sometimes get focused on just one issue, there are multiple ramifications to be considered when moving a school into a different class.

 

The Mercer situation happened in the middle of a 2 yr contract cycle. Holmes situation came to light at the beginning of a 2 yr contract cycle and I'm told that such is why the situation was handled differently. You and I may or may not agree that such is a significant enough difference to justify the move, but evidently the KHSAA thinks it is.

[cch5432]

Hard to say. Putting those three in 4A would mean forcing some out of the area 4A school to be added to the district if a minimum 4 team district remained a priority and incur the associated travel costs (although if Scott's enrollment is decreasing as suggested on here they would be the fourth team). Plus, if just Highlands, Dixie and CovCath were in 4A, it would leave just Scott and Dixie in the 5A district (and maybe just Dixie if Scott also left 5A) which would create forced increased transportation costs on Dixie.

 

But your point is a good one and I'd expect the KHSAA to look at the situation when they officially look at realignment for the seasons beginning with the 2011/2012 year. The 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 alignments are set (well sort of:D)

 

Well, from what I gathered above, Pendelton would be the 4th 4A team in the district, which really is not that far. But whether or not the two move down, someone is going to have to travel a lot (either Holmes or Scott and Dixie)

[RoadRunner]

I'm glad to see Holmes moving away from CovCath/Highlands. I've made the case in the past that it was to Holmes' detriment to be in a district allowing CovCath and Highlands to play up in class.

What other 5A team/district would this not be true? Same for 6A outside of X & T's district.

[Jim Schue]

Do you know what percent of decrease Ft. Knox has had from its current boys 2yr avg from the previous boys 2 yr avg? If it was a 12% drop, I'd agree with you that it should have been handled the same, particularly if a move by Ft. Knox wouldn't have created a 6 team district in its new class or created a 3 team district in its old class. While we posters sometimes get focused on just one issue, there are multiple ramifications to be considered when moving a school into a different class.

 

The Mercer situation happened in the middle of a 2 yr contract cycle. Holmes situation came to light at the beginning of a 2 yr contract cycle and I'm told that such is why the situation was handled differently. You and I may or may not agree that such is a significant enough difference to justify the move, but evidently the KHSAA thinks it is.

 

I don't recall reading anything about an enrollment drop to that degree. I think as much as anything the folks at Fort Knox pleaded for mercy with the KHSAA because of the general flux their student body is always in. It's not out of the ordinary for the Fort Knox roster in any given sport to look dramatically different at the end of the season than the beginning because constant shifting of base personnel. On the good side for Fort Knox, once all the different aspects of BRAC are in place, they should have a lot more stable student population, and potentially be able to get back to the high level they used to enjoy back in the day, such as Fort Campbell enjoys now.

 

FWIW, they are in a four-team district along with Bardstown, Danville and Washington Co.

[kissinger]

Wasn't this the main reason Mercer Co. was able to remain at 2A during their state championship year after consolidation? Same thing with the new Harlan Co. school? Seems like that precedent would hold in Holmes' case as well.

 

And to repeat myself from earlier, why should Holmes get this treatment when Fort Knox is in the same boat and has been denied a drop down?

 

 

As I remember reading, the reason Fort Knox and some others had to be turned down was that they left a three team district behind. That was why Ashland couldn't move from what was on their web site. Depending upon what happens in enrollment, you might see both move in 2011. Mercer as I remember, was allowed to remain because it was in the middle of a contract (second of two years). This is clearly before the start of two year schedules.

[FATQB]

This is going to start a trend of schools lowering a class if they can't compete, this will be a loop hole and I think that when teams figure out how to manipulate the system there will be a total overhaul.

[JBauer24]

 

Think about it, not only do the 5A schools have to find replacement games, the 4A district schools have to boot a team off of their schedule and all of those schools that get booted have to find a replacement game too.

 

Maybe the 5A schools can contact the teams that the 4A schools had to boot and add them to their schedule. That would solve some of the scheduling problems.

[StickerMann]

I understand the move from a competetion aspect but I don't from the travel aspect. Thats gonna mean alot of bus time to district games.

 

Sounds a lot like 10th region basketball for the NKY teams Camel??

[colonel-fan]

What other 5A team/district would this not be true? Same for 6A outside of X & T's district.

 

I agree. The counter argument was the bigger schools needed to "man up" and beat the smaller schools playing up. The past success had nothing to do with the current competitiveness of the programs.

[Eta Rho]

From nky.com:

 

......Now Holmes has a different problem, as do other area programs. The Bulldogs must find room on their schedule for four new district opponents. That means four teams from their original 10-game schedule – Bellevue, Bryan Station, Cooper, CovCath, Dixie Heights, Highlands, Holy Cross, Lloyd, Scott and Withrow – will have a hole in their schedules.

 

Representatives from all four of Holmes’ former district opponents have indicated that they’d like to keep Holmes on the schedule. Lickert will meet with coaches from the team’s new district on Jan. 24 to begin hashing out the problem.

 

Rest of story:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090115/SPT030201/301150067/

 

Looking at the teams involved that were on their former schedule (district opponents + Bellevue, Cooper, Lloyd, Holy Cross, Bryan Station, Withrow), who likely gets dropped from Holmes' schedule to make room for the new district opponents? I'd think Lickert would atleast want to keep Bellevue, Holy Cross, and Cooper. I think we may have seen the last of Highlands/Holmes though.

[mexitucky]

From nky.com:

 

......Now Holmes has a different problem, as do other area programs. The Bulldogs must find room on their schedule for four new district opponents. That means four teams from their original 10-game schedule – Bellevue, Bryan Station, Cooper, CovCath, Dixie Heights, Highlands, Holy Cross, Lloyd, Scott and Withrow – will have a hole in their schedules.

 

Representatives from all four of Holmes’ former district opponents have indicated that they’d like to keep Holmes on the schedule. Lickert will meet with coaches from the team’s new district on Jan. 24 to begin hashing out the problem.

 

Rest of story:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090115/SPT030201/301150067/

 

Looking at the teams involved that were on their former schedule (district opponents + Bellevue, Cooper, Lloyd, Holy Cross, Bryan Station, Withrow), who likely gets dropped from Holmes' schedule to make room for the new district opponents? I'd think Lickert would atleast want to keep Bellevue, Holy Cross, and Cooper. I think we may have seen the last of Highlands/Holmes though.

 

Looks like Highlands may be the only team in NKY to play a 10 game regular season and only play 8 teams. It's going to be tough to find someone willing to change their schedule to play them in NKY. May have to play Ryle 2x and another 2x.