There's a difference between pushing and shoving for no reason away from the ball and playing good physical defense. Mason scored at will down low against Isler, Counts, and Wellbrock.

 

Mason scored at will down low on all of the CCH bigs. Not just those three. BTW it's a two way street as far as the pushing and shoving go. I saw it out of the Mason Co bigs the whole game too.

I don't think there was ever a 5-guard lineup.

 

At one point CCH lineup was this:

 

Wilson, Robinson, Maile, Sorrell, Pauly and then Ives came in for Pauly.

CovCath has a long way to go. No scorers (save Maile) and their free throw shooting was atrocious! I don't know how may front-ins of a one-and-one they missed but it seemed like alot. I expected a much better game than this.

Exactly!!!! Shover RUNS the offense. They have no other guards that can do that. And I stated this in the predictions thread that losing him also takes away from CCH defensively. He can guard almost any guard in the state. No one else can RUN this offense. Shover is the missing link in the chain and to me there's no question about it. He may not be a top scorer but it takes pressure off of Ives, Maile, and the rest of the squad. It let's Sorrell stray away open as Shover and Maile draw double teams to knock down the deep shot like he's in there for. Sorrell is completely useless without an offense that can create open shots. And if you can't have that offense, you need guards that will consistently penetrate the paint, either shoot their shot, or pass back out to an open shooter. That's what Cov Cath has done in past years with Bovard and Todd Jacobs etc. That's how their success comes. Just giving the ball to Maile and hoping he scores isn't the answer and without Mitch that's what this team is doing. Every now and then I see some light out of Ives but it doesn't stay consistent. Mitch is the peanut butter missing on this PB & J so to speak.

 

So you think Shover can guard the likes of Ricardo Johnson, Vee Sanford, Chad Jackson, Ge'Lawn Guyn, Cox from Ballard, Mornoes/Ashford from Bryan Station, Cosby from J'town, the Elliot Co trio, and Stenzel from GRC? I could go on and on naming other guards but you get the point. Shover is a good guard but not as good as you're making him out to be. Don't get me wrong, I love your enthusiasm for Shover, and he's a great kid that's really going through some tough things right now, but honestly he wouldn't have made that big of a difference in this game. CCH looked absolutely horrible and one player wasn't going to be enough of a difference last night to keep it under a 20 point game.

I'm not sure what offensive sets you can run if you can't handle the pressure at midcourt.

 

You could run something similar to what UK has to run. A high pick & roll offense or something backdoor.

 

But you're right, it's tough to start an offense from that far out. I wish that I would have been able to watch this game. In the past, Listerman has fallen in love with the "2 guard" offense, and it starts from halfcourt. In theory, it's a simple offense, but it's difficult to run with extended pressure.

So you think Shover can guard the likes of Ricardo Johnson, Vee Sanford, Chad Jackson, Ge'Lawn Guyn, Cox from Ballard, Mornoes/Ashford from Bryan Station, Cosby from J'town, the Elliot Co trio, and Stenzel from GRC? I could go on and on naming other guards but you get the point. Shover is a good guard but not as good as you're making him out to be. Don't get me wrong, I love your enthusiasm for Shover, and he's a great kid that's really going through some tough things right now, but honestly he wouldn't have made that big of a difference in this game.

Things are different in the summer but I know for a fact that Shover held Sanford to 6 points in a game. Also, as someone who has played against a lot of those players (and many better ones before them), I know that Shover could do a decent job on them. I think you are the one who is not giving credit where it is due. :thumb:

Well we have seen the bad Mason and the Good Mason. I have a feeling the Highlands lose was a wake up call for the Royals. I don't know if they know just how hard it is to go to Cov. Cath and win, let alone by 20. CCH faithful, is this a sign for things to come, or just a bad game?

Things are different in the summer but I know for a fact that Shover held Sanford to 6 points in a game. Also, as someone who has played against a lot of those players (and many better ones before them), I know that Shover could do a decent job on them. I think you are the one who is not giving credit where it is due. :thumb:

 

I believe I gave Shover credit and said he was a good guard but just didn't think he was all state like CCH24 was making him out to be. Nothing wrong with that. It's just my opinion.

 

WHo would Shover have guarded last night? All 5 Mason Co starters were 6'4 or taller and he can't break the press by himself.

Thelen, after a long JV game, still looked better to me than Isler did. Isler needs more time to get back into basketball shape. It didn't look good for him tonight, especially the technical foul.

 

Thelen got away with fouls, that was the difference in his physicality. His blocks were 1. arm thrown out awkwardly and ball bouncing off it, and the others WERE fouls, just not called because they were slight. I do agree he did fine, but Thelen has a LONG way to go before he is ready for varsity. [not that it matters too much since varsity looks terrible].

 

And yeah Isler obviously needs to get back into basketball shape, they anticipate it being a couple weeks before he is ready to go completely. But the technical was a quick whistle, and he shouldn't have said anything to the ref, but I heard from a few good sources, the ref thought he said something different than he did, hence the quick call. Truth was outside of the tech, somebody needed to push the big guys down low on their rumps..cause we were getting pushed around, and that needed to be put to a quick stop.

You can design all of the offenses you want but if you can't handle the pressure outside you can't get into an offense. They were in a set that called for dribble penetration leading to a layup or a kickout. However, when you can't penetrate it leaves you circling the 3 point line. Its not 3rd grade basketball - we can't set a bunch of picks for our PG and have him dribble in. I'm not sure what offensive sets you can run if you can't handle the pressure at midcourt.

 

 

Ha, I TOTALLY agree with you.

 

The main problem is that none of guards can be trusted to bring down the ball. Our guards have an uncanny ability to throw the ball away immediately before or after they hit half court. This is shown in the 36 turnovers in 2 games. We won't win any game that way. But when they did happen to make it that far down the court, passing around the arc just won't work and that has ALWAYS been the offense of CCH. I don't think it's a secret we do NOT have the shooting this year.

Thelen got away with fouls, that was the difference in his physicality. His blocks were 1. arm thrown out awkwardly and ball bouncing off it, and the others WERE fouls, just not called because they were slight. I do agree he did fine, but Thelen has a LONG way to go before he is ready for varsity. [not that it matters too much since varsity looks terrible].

 

Tough crowd.

 

How can you say that Thelen got away with fouls and stumbled his way into a block? I wasn't at the game, but give the kid some credit.

 

"Getting away with fouls" is an important aspect of the game. Kudos to Thelen for playing & working hard down low. Sounds like if the rest of the Colonels had that type of tenacity last night's outcome could have been a different story.

Tough crowd.

 

How can you say that Thelen got away with fouls and stumbled his way into a block? I wasn't at the game, but give the kid some credit.

 

"Getting away with fouls" is an important aspect of the game. Kudos to Thelen for playing & working hard down low. Sounds like if the rest of the Colonels had that type of tenacity last night's outcome could have been a different story.

 

I can say Thelen got away with fouls because he did. I know it is an aspect of the game, I've played since I was 8. However, to say that he played with an amazing tenacity just wouldn't be accurate. He did ok. Nobody on the team did particularly great or good. Ives had a pretty decent showing, but beyond that no one did more than ok. It is just truth. When someone DOES do something great, I'll tell you.

 

Oh, and last night's outcome wouldn't have changed even WITH any tenacity. Mason Co. was just better.

Who is up next for each of these teams?

Who is up next for each of these teams?

 

I'm pretty sure CCH plays Conner on Tuesday at home. Don't know much about Conner this year at all, so I'm not sure how it will go.

Ouch! The talk prior to the game was that Downing would be back. Di he make that much of a difference?

 

Yes he is not only a senior but Masons best defender and a 6-10 rebound a game guy.He can also give you 10 points a game.Once Hamm is at full strength at guard his senior leadership and ball handleing will help a lot also.He can also knock down the trey and Royals bench will become that much deeper.