So what was McCain's actual answer to the question? I don't remember him giving a figure.

 

As for the political ads, which ones did Obama do first, before McCain "responded in kind"? I am asking because I don't remember.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/16/warren.forum/#cnnSTCVideo

 

Here is where you can watch the forum.

So what was McCain's actual answer to the question? I don't remember him giving a figure.

 

As for the political ads, which ones did Obama do first, before McCain "responded in kind"? I am asking because I don't remember.

Here is McCain's complete answer. Note the bolded text. McCain expected Obama to distort his words and Obama did not disappoint.

 

SEN. MCCAIN: Some of the richest people I’ve ever known in my life are the most unhappy. I think that rich should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.

 

I don’t want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich. (Laughter.) I don’t believe in class warfare or redistribution of wealth. But I can tell you, for example, there are small businessmen and women who are working 16 hours a day, seven days a week, that some people would classify as, quote, “rich,” my friends, and want to raise their taxes and want to raise their payroll taxes.

 

Let’s have — keep taxes low. Let’s give every family in America a $7,000 tax credit for every child they have. Let’s give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice. Let’s not have the government take over the health care system in America. (Applause.)

 

So I think if you’re just talking about income, how about $5 million? (Laughter.) So, no, but seriously, I don’t think you can — I don’t think, seriously, that — the point is that I’m trying to make here, seriously — and I’m sure that comment will be distorted — (laughter) — but the point is, the point is, the point is that we want to keep people’s taxes low and increase revenues.

 

And my friend, it was not taxes that mattered in America in the last several years. It was spending. Spending got completely out of control. We spent money — (applause) — in a way that mortgaged our kids’ future.

 

My friend, we spent $3 million of your money to study the DNA of bears in Montana. (Laughter.) Now, I don’t know if that was a paternity issue or a criminal issue. (Laughter.) But the point is, but the point is, it was $3 million of your money. It was your money.

 

And, you know, we laugh about it, but we cry. And we should cry, because the Congress is supposed to be careful stewards of your tax dollars. So what did they just do in the middle of an energy crisis, when in California we’re paying $4 a gallon for gas? Went on vacation for five weeks. I guarantee you, two things they never miss — a pay raise and a vacation. And we should stop that and call them back — (applause) — and not raise your taxes. We should not and cannot raise taxes in tough economic times.

 

So it doesn’t matter, really, what my definition of “rich” is, because I don’t want to raise anybody’s taxes. I really don’t. In fact, I want to give working Americans a better shot at having a better life. And we all know the challenges, my friends, if I could be serious.

 

Americans tonight in California and all over America are sitting at the kitchen table, recently and suddenly lost a job, can’t afford to stay in their home, education for their kids, affordable health care. These are tough problems. These are tough problems. You talk to them every day – Transcript

And I bet you have never said "My Catholic faith". Not even by accident.

 

You have to admit he is alot more connected to the Muslim faith than your typical Bible believing Christian, don't you?

 

And therein might lie the problem for all the typical "Bible believing Christians." They don't know anything about Islam.

 

Let's see. I'm a Baptist Minister. I took World Religions at EKU in 1984. I took another World Religions Class under Randall Parks at SBTS in the late 80's. Randall was an SBC missionary to Egypt for years and ministered among Muslims in a country that is one of the more "liberal" in the Middle East and yet it was still "illegal" for him to convert anyone to Christianity. He did so under the possibility of prison.

 

I am friends with Mich Tosan who is the director of Persian World Outreach in the New Jersey and D.C. areas. Mitch is a former Muslim who is a Christian that now seeks to find common ground with American Muslims and present the gospel of Christ to them.

 

I have professional dealings with Faysil Sharrif who works in a similar capacity for Virginia Baptists. Faysil gave up millions and position in Lyberia in order to be a Christian. He became a naturalized citizen of the US.

 

I said all that to say, there's a lot of us Bible Believing Chrisitans who have taken the time to know the tenants of Islam (and Hindu among others) in order to better equip ourselves to share Christ. So maybe we are closet Muslims too. :thumb:

That's pretty good Hatz. I got my minor in Religious Studies at EKU also and was very interested in learning the Muslim religion for nothing else other than being educated on these beliefs, not to practice it.

That's pretty good Hatz. I got my minor in Religious Studies at EKU also and was very interested in learning the Muslim religion for nothing else other than being educated on these beliefs, not to practice it.

 

I too got my minor in Religion and Philosophy at EKU. That was in '85 so I don't know that we shared the same profs or not.

He can say he is Christian, but his actions, and his history say otherwise.

 

 

And yours?

And yours?

Uncle Jed is as imperfect as any of us, but I can personally vouch that his history and actions very much reveal a man of Christian grace and virtue. :thumb:

Uncle Jed is as imperfect as any of us, but I can personally vouch that his history and actions very much reveal a man of Christian grace and virtue. :thumb:

 

And there might be some who could say the same for others, how do we know?

 

Whose to say someone might not step up and say they see him in a different light or a light that doesn't seem to reflect Christianity?

 

Whose to say the same isn't going to be said about me?

 

 

I'm no Obama fan, but it seems that you are saying because you know Jed Personally you can vouch for him. Maybe it takes someone who actually knows Obama to do the same?

Uncle Jed is as imperfect as any of us, but I can personally vouch that his history and actions very much reveal a man of Christian grace and virtue. :thumb:

 

Is this the criteria then for determining, or accusing, others of being or not being a Christian?

And there might be some who could say the same for others, how do we know?

 

Whose to say someone might not step up and say they see him in a different light or a light that doesn't seem to reflect Christianity?

 

Whose to say the same isn't going to be said about me?

 

 

I'm no Obama fan, but it seems that you are saying because you know Jed Personally you can vouch for him. Maybe it takes someone who actually knows Obama to do the same?

Dang boys...

 

How'd I get dragged into the middle of all this... :lol:

 

I make one post in nearly 100 to say, "Jed's a good egg" and suddenly I'm accountable for all the crap swirling around O? :eek: :eek: :eek:

 

BGP is an mostly an anonymous board where anyone, good, bad or ugly can log on and spout off about anything. I just happen to know Jed in the real world, and know him to be a guy that practices what he preaches. No more, no less.

 

You guys get to figure out Obama's dilemma. :thumb:

 

 

 

 

For the record, I've read the Koran cover to cover and researched and written a brief biography on the life of Muhammad... not because I'm considering a leap in faiths, but because, as a Christian, I wanted to understand the religion better.

Is this the criteria then for determining, or accusing, others of being or not being a Christian?

It's not my job to sort that out. If I'm not mistaken, God is the ultimate arbiter of such matters.

 

On a far more casual basis, I do believe we are to know a tree by the fruit it bears. I would generally need to know more about a person than what I get from the evening news to have a fair assessment of where they are in life and what they believe.

It's not my job to sort that out. If I'm not mistaken, God is the ultimate arbiter of such matters.

 

On a far more casual basis, I do believe we are to know a tree by the fruit it bears. I would generally need to know more about a person than what I get from the evening news to have a fair assessment of where they are in life and what they believe.

 

I agree with your last paragraph.

 

I think though that Habib was pointing out exactly the same from your first statement to Uncle Jed. Except Jed didn't seem to agree.

ABsolutely.

 

Same as McCain jokingly answering RIck Warren's comment about a $ figure of who the rich is and him saying $5 million and adding that answering will be distorted and Obama himself doing exactly what McCain said would happen with his answer.

 

 

McCain wasnt joking, he truly believes $5 MILLION OR MORE IS RICH.

Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

I just can’t believe that someone who promotes the killing of innocent children is bearing good fruit. As for does he pray five times a day. I would hope so. I pray at least that many times a day. That does not make me a Muslim.

 

 

I and my wife have 3 very well manner young adults. We believe in a woman right to chose and we have brought forth good fruit in our 3 kids. It's a choice, by the way how many kids have you adopted?

Here is McCain's complete answer. Note the bolded text. McCain expected Obama to distort his words and Obama did not disappoint.

 

So he never answered the question. Thanks.

 

What about the second part of my post?