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Natural Rights-God Granted


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Our Founding Fathers broke with from Great Britian because they believed that their 'natural rights' were being violated. Thomas Jefferson wrote of "unalienable rights" and the Founding fathers added on a Bill of Rights to the Constitution of 1787 to protect the 'natural rights' of individual citizens.

 

The Founding Fathers based their beliefs upon the writings, debates and thoughts of the Enlightenment philosophers. These philosophers believe that these 'natural rights' are granted by God. Therefore these rights can never be taken away, except by tyrannical governments. Some tyrannical governments try to remove God from peoples lives, because they believe then rights are granted by government and what government gives, they can take away.

 

The Supreme Court therefore made the correct decision to protect the individual right of gun ownership. Citizens have the right to protect not only theirselves, but their homes and famlies, as well to fight the tyranny of abusive government. Before you say that an individual cannot defeat the government, you are correct, but with millions of gun-owners any government, including our own, would hesitate about becoming dictatorial. Unless you eliminate God from our lives and then chip away at our 'natural rights', especially the Second Amendment. Take away our defense from abusive government and the other 9 Amendments in the Bill of Rights will fall like dominoes.

 

The Supreme Court has ruled, whether Barak Obama likes it or not, that I can cling to my gun. I can also cling to my bible as well, because I can protect my First Amendment rights with my Second Amendment right.

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Our Founding Fathers broke with from Great Britian because they believed that their 'natural rights' were being violated. Thomas Jefferson wrote of "unalienable rights" and the Founding fathers added on a Bill of Rights to the Constitution of 1787 to protect the 'natural rights' of individual citizens.

 

The Founding Fathers based their beliefs upon the writings, debates and thoughts of the Enlightenment philosophers. These philosophers believe that these 'natural rights' are granted by God. Therefore these rights can never be taken away, except by tyrannical governments. Some tyrannical governments try to remove God from peoples lives, because they believe then rights are granted by government and what government gives, they can take away.

 

The Supreme Court therefore made the correct decision to protect the individual right of gun ownership. Citizens have the right to protect not only theirselves, but their homes and famlies, as well to fight the tyranny of abusive government. Before you say that an individual cannot defeat the government, you are correct, but with millions of gun-owners any government, including our own, would hesitate about becoming dictatorial. Unless you eliminate God from our lives and then chip away at our 'natural rights', especially the Second Amendment. Take away our defense from abusive government and the other 9 Amendments in the Bill of Rights will fall like dominoes.

 

The Supreme Court has ruled, whether Barak Obama likes it or not, that I can cling to my gun. I can also cling to my bible as well, because I can protect my First Amendment rights with my Second Amendment right.

 

I think the Bill of Rights weren't adopted until 1792.

 

The First Amendment discussion you make is couched in less than historical reasons. None of the Founding Father's saw governments in Europe as "removing God from the people." Instead they saw years of church and state marriages that corrupted both the state and the church. In their new land they wanted no infringement upon how an individual wished to worship (or not worship) so they would not establish a religion or empower it by the state. This was a direct response to noting that tax dollars had gone to the Catholic Church in Maryland (the state sanctioned religion) and the Anglican Church in Virginia (same) and Congregational Church in Mass. It was also an answer to the states that had not dis-established a state religion as Virginia had with Jefferson's leadership in 1786.

 

To compare Enlightenment writers with today's Evangelical notions of the use of the term "God" is to miss the boat upon these phrases. For many of those who were influenced by the Enlightenment, they were Deists in thought. Deists believed in a creating God (for the most part) but that God was disconnected from us now. Furthermore, the notion of God held various ideas, even thoughts that Jesus was not divine or that Scripture was all that authoritative (see Jefferson's Bible).

 

What I believe the Founding Father's sought was liberty for all, even those with whom they disagreed. That is why they did not establish a state religion nor took the guns from the citizenry. (that was seen as a check to the government) The point I made in another thread is that the gap between the citizenry's arms and the military's arms is greater now than it was in the 18th century. Dictatorship is easier now to achieve because of that reality. However, the real check comes from a thinking population that would see through despotism and make it harder for the government to command a force to subjugate the masses. Liberty that is practiced is harder to defeat.

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I think the Bill of Rights weren't adopted until 1792.

 

The First Amendment discussion you make is couched in less than historical reasons. None of the Founding Father's saw governments in Europe as "removing God from the people." Instead they saw years of church and state marriages that corrupted both the state and the church. In their new land they wanted no infringement upon how an individual wished to worship (or not worship) so they would not establish a religion or empower it by the state. This was a direct response to noting that tax dollars had gone to the Catholic Church in Maryland (the state sanctioned religion) and the Anglican Church in Virginia (same) and Congregational Church in Mass. It was also an answer to the states that had not dis-established a state religion as Virginia had with Jefferson's leadership in 1786.

 

To compare Enlightenment writers with today's Evangelical notions of the use of the term "God" is to miss the boat upon these phrases. For many of those who were influenced by the Enlightenment, they were Deists in thought. Deists believed in a creating God (for the most part) but that God was disconnected from us now. Furthermore, the notion of God held various ideas, even thoughts that Jesus was not divine or that Scripture was all that authoritative (see Jefferson's Bible).

 

What I believe the Founding Father's sought was liberty for all, even those with whom they disagreed. That is why they did not establish a state religion nor took the guns from the citizenry. (that was seen as a check to the government) The point I made in another thread is that the gap between the citizenry's arms and the military's arms is greater now than it was in the 18th century. Dictatorship is easier now to achieve because of that reality. However, the real check comes from a thinking population that would see through despotism and make it harder for the government to command a force to subjugate the masses. Liberty that is practiced is harder to defeat.

 

Good post. Thanks for giving a correct historical perspective.

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Hatz I agree with a lot of what you say, although I disagree on the point of god and government somewhat. They said one faith was not to be regconized over another. In today's world many misconstrue this to mean no religion in the public domain which is incorrect.

While I believe it would be difficult to outright create a dictatorship in this country, there are many who sell off their freedoms little by little and to be just be on the safe side, I, along with many others, would like to keep our second amendment rights in place, just if the need arises.

The Bill of Rights were added later, but they were promised as means of attaining ratification. Which I guess I did not make clear.

Even if many of these individuals were not full believers as you stated, they still believed a god created these rights. Once again something many in this world today wish to ignore.

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Hatz I agree with a lot of what you say, although I disagree on the point of god and government somewhat. They said one faith was not to be regconized over another. In today's world many misconstrue this to mean no religion in the public domain which is incorrect.

While I believe it would be difficult to outright create a dictatorship in this country, there are many who sell off their freedoms little by little and to be just be on the safe side, I, along with many others, would like to keep our second amendment rights in place, just if the need arises.

The Bill of Rights were added later, but they were promised as means of attaining ratification. Which I guess I did not make clear.

Even if many of these individuals were not full believers as you stated, they still believed a god created these rights. Once again something many in this world today wish to ignore.

 

 

It's okay to disagree. :thumb:

 

 

I tend to see many of these "God statments" as a "tip of the hat to a creator" more than actual belief as many of us would define in God. I think it's hard on this side of the enlightenment to understand the differences unless we really look at the philosophy of that age and that philosophy played out in their writings.

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I can only think of one God given right. That is the right to choose. Personally, I think freewill is overrated.

 

 

Yeah, I'm with you....as far as the right to bear arms, I'm still looking in the Bible for the commandment that says, "Thou shalt bear arms", or the beatitude that says, "Blessed be the armed".

 

See...I'm searching Old and New Testaments. :D

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Our Founding Fathers broke with from Great Britian because they believed that their 'natural rights' were being violated. Thomas Jefferson wrote of "unalienable rights" and the Founding fathers added on a Bill of Rights to the Constitution of 1787 to protect the 'natural rights' of individual citizens.

 

The Founding Fathers based their beliefs upon the writings, debates and thoughts of the Enlightenment philosophers. These philosophers believe that these 'natural rights' are granted by God. Therefore these rights can never be taken away, except by tyrannical governments. Some tyrannical governments try to remove God from peoples lives, because they believe then rights are granted by government and what government gives, they can take away.

 

The Supreme Court therefore made the correct decision to protect the individual right of gun ownership. Citizens have the right to protect not only theirselves, but their homes and famlies, as well to fight the tyranny of abusive government. Before you say that an individual cannot defeat the government, you are correct, but with millions of gun-owners any government, including our own, would hesitate about becoming dictatorial. Unless you eliminate God from our lives and then chip away at our 'natural rights', especially the Second Amendment. Take away our defense from abusive government and the other 9 Amendments in the Bill of Rights will fall like dominoes.

 

The Supreme Court has ruled, whether Barak Obama likes it or not, that I can cling to my gun. I can also cling to my bible as well, because I can protect my First Amendment rights with my Second Amendment right.

 

Absolutely great post! As a matter of fact imo this is the best post of any thread to date on this forum throughout this election year.

 

Great job bball, JMO but Obama wants nothing more than to take the Holy Bible and our rights away....not just the right to bear arms but ALL of them.

BaCrock Winfrey Obama is imo a danger to our American way of life as we know it.

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It's still interesting to see that some of those who argued about the "natural god given rights" of man, were some of the ones who owned slaves (such as Jefferson). I still have an issue with that.
I agree.
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Absolutely great post! As a matter of fact imo this is the best post of any thread to date on this forum throughout this election year.

 

Great job bball, JMO but Obama wants nothing more than to take the Holy Bible and our rights away....not just the right to bear arms but ALL of them.

BaCrock Winfrey Obama is imo a danger to our American way of life as we know it.

 

Ok, OR...now where did Obama say that he wants to take away anyone's Bible, including his own?

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It's still interesting to see that some of those who argued about the "natural god given rights" of man, were some of the ones who owned slaves (such as Jefferson). I still have an issue with that.

 

Its not all that inconsistent. Many of them did not believe that slaves were men, ergo, they did not have any natural rights.

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Ok, OR...now where did Obama say that he wants to take away anyone's Bible, including his own?

 

He didn't. He says we "cling" to them because we have no hope, when we should be "clinging" to government.

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