I think this is a slippery slope. If it is private schools first what is next? Independent schools? Open enrollment schools?

 

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Obviously, I believe any division should be at open and closed enrollment. I hope it moves to that point.

 

I meant to post earlier and forgot that I don't want a division at specific private/public levels. I don't think that is the issue but just the one getting all the focus.

Would someone explain to me why the public schools are doing this. I am having a hard time seeing where they say that the playing field is not level because it is not going to be level for any school. They need to split into classes in basketball because it is not fair for a small school to play a school like Scott County. By the way, didn't Scott County just get two basketball players from a private school. And the players made it known that it was for athletic reasons. Will Scott County be boycotted? Also, why is Fayette County still playing Sayre and not Lexington Catholic? Does Sayre have a district? Can't Sayre draw from any part of the county? Or is it that they beat Sayre everytime they play?

I purposely never mentioned cheating because I don't think cheating is the issue. It is the nature of the two schools and how athletically one school is going to have advantages that the other school cannot match up with.

 

As far as the real world, I have made posts of 15-20 things that are similar in nature. So, this is real life.

 

When we started out, we were smaller than everyone, got beat up, etc....that was 18 titles ago....we do things the right wya at Trinity. Jefferson County has done a great job of trying to get a great product out there as far as education. They have arguably the best school in the state in duPont Manual, and some other solid ones. If your county, or others across the state are sick of some things, they should start with their OWN practices first, before trying to attack ours.

Everybody cheats in some way, its human nature.

 

How many times has X/Rocks either team has played in the finals the last 35 years?

 

Interesting, no one has replied about the three other states that I mentioned.

 

Alltell you can call us Cowards all you want, I call it level playing field for everyone. Publics and privates. How many times in the past 35 years I've seen Iroquois and Atherton play the private schools? Comment

 

Then every kid that ever walks the halls at MALE had better come from a feeder school.....but since we know that's not going to happen. You continue to do things your way, with your coach, and we'll keep winning titles doing things that is 100% within the rules for us.

Obviously, I believe any division should be at open and closed enrollment. I hope it moves to that point.

 

I meant to post earlier and forgot that I don't want a division at specific private/public levels. I don't think that is the issue but just the one getting all the focus.

Of course, defining what is truly open or closed would be a huge sticking point there. I don't belive we will ever get there. Fayette Co, who has had a bone of contention with LCA and LC, about the ability to draw from outside the county, has had students, playing for schools while living outside the schools district.

When we started out, we were smaller than everyone, got beat up, etc....that was 18 titles ago....we do things the right wya at Trinity. Jefferson County has done a great job of trying to get a great product out there as far as education. They have arguably the best school in the state in duPont Manual, and some other solid ones. If your county, or others across the state are sick of some things, they should start with their OWN practices first, before trying to attack ours.

 

We have an area of 13,000 people to draw from. How big is your area?

 

My point is to allow like schools to compete against like schools. Don't ask a school like Robertson County that has about 5,000 people in their entire county to compete against a school that has about 200,000 people in their area to draw from.

 

Deming could have open enrollment and the best teachers and coaches in the state and they still wouldn't be able to compete on a consistent basis with someone like Lex Cath/Lex Christian.

We have an area of 13,000 people to draw from. How big is your area?

 

My point is to allow like schools to compete against like schools. Don't ask a school like Robertson County that has about 5,000 people in their entire county to compete against a school that has about 200,000 people in their area to draw from.

 

Deming could have open enrollment and the best teachers and coaches in the state and they still wouldn't be able to compete on a consistent basis with someone like Lex Cath/Lex Christian.

 

That to me sounds like an argument to classify all sports based on school size first, and then look at an open vs closed argument. With all of that population, open area to draw from, and about 1400 boys, Trinity and St. X don't field anywhere near as competitive a basketball team as a football team.

 

You Must have edited while I was replying.

What you say about Deming and their status currently and the ability to currently compete with Lex Cath/LCA is true now. But go back about 20 or so years, and Demings status nearly mirrors what Lex Caths used to be. The personell in place at Lexington Catholic looked ahead long term, and did what was needed to be constitently sucessful in the future. IMO, open enrollment has been a part of the sucess that these two schools have had, but no one will ever be able to convince me, being in the position that I am, that the sucess would not be there without open enrollment.

Of course, defining what is truly open or closed would be a huge sticking point there. I don't belive we will ever get there. Fayette Co, who has had a bone of contention with LCA and LC, about the ability to draw from outside the county, has had students, playing for schools while living outside the schools district.

 

For some it will be real easy. Robertson County borders would be it for Deming.

 

I would suggest let each school submit their own borders. From that point, a committee put together by KDE or KHSAA would oversee those suggestions and make changes if necessary.

 

For probably 90 to 95% of the schools, it would be easy. The publics are pretty much already determined by KDE and the local board. Whatever students are assigned to that areas.

 

The privates are the only schools that borders would be a new thing.

That to me sounds like an argument to classify all sports based on school size first, and then look at an open vs closed argument. With all of that population, open area to draw from, and about 1400 boys, Trinity and St. X don't field anywhere near as competitive a basketball team as a football team.

 

Something to this effect is what I have been saying for awhile.

 

THIS SHOULD NOT BE A PRIVATE/PUBLIC ISSUE. It is a larger problem than that.

 

I think it is an open/closed argument too, because some on here will say that Deming can just become an open enrollment school. That ain't going to help them like it would in an urban area.

Ram, you hit the nail on the head. Both public and private schools have been let off the hook too easy. From what I'm told you will see stronger punishments in the future including banning offending coaches from coaching in Ky for whole seasons and in certain cases, for lifetime.

 

The KHSAA has always hoped that the principals and supers would police their own coaches and where appropriate not allow offending coaches to continue to coach. For various reasons, they have not been willing to do so. To the contrary, you have seen offending coaches get fired at one school ( a good thing) just to get a job at another high school that had knowledge of the offending coach's conduct (by the way, it was a public school that hired the offending coach after he had been fired). As a result you are going to see much more aggressive action by the KHSAA against coaches. You are going to see banishments from post season play for schools.

 

I disagree with this whole "endorsement" thing because it unfairly targets privates that don't cheat and doesn't target the publics that do. In my mind it just shows how biased the KASS has become on this issue.

I hope your right LN, I hope that a more Stern punishment is implemented for violating KHSAA rules, I hope it is a huge preposterous punishment that will discourage violations.

 

Schools only break the rules to win games, and if you take away the schools ability to win, or function, this will stop.

 

Like I have said before, I don't think this issue is a public versus private issue; I think this is a right versus wrong issue.

That to me sounds like an argument to classify all sports based on school size first, and then look at an open vs closed argument. With all of that population, open area to draw from, and about 1400 boys, Trinity and St. X don't field anywhere near as competitive a basketball team as a football team.

 

You Must have edited while I was replying.

What you say about Deming and their status currently and the ability to currently compete with Lex Cath/LCA is true now. But go back about 20 or so years, and Demings status nearly mirrors what Lex Caths used to be. The personell in place at Lexington Catholic looked ahead long term, and did what was needed to be constitently sucessful in the future. IMO, open enrollment has been a part of the sucess that these two schools have had, but no one will ever be able to convince me, being in the position that I am, that the sucess would not be there without open enrollment.

 

What is the difference from the area that Deming draws students from whether they are open enrollment or not and the area that Lex Catholic draws from?

 

From my understanding, Lex Catholic has students/athletes from Scott County, Bourbon County, Madison County, Clark County, Montgomery County, Franklin County, Jessamine County, and of course Fayette County.

 

Deming could put an identical plan in place that the LC's used and they still would not be to the level of the LC's.

 

On the bolded part, can you please clarify.

For some it will be real easy. Robertson County borders would be it for Deming.

 

I would suggest let each school submit their own borders. From that point, a committee put together by KDE or KHSAA would oversee those suggestions and make changes if necessary.

 

For probably 90 to 95% of the schools, it would be easy. The publics are pretty much already determined by KDE and the local board. Whatever students are assigned to that areas.

 

The privates are the only schools that borders would be a new thing.

 

Here is where the vast amount of counties in KY have had an effect, making many comparisons with other states imposible IMO. I too belive that for most schools, open enrollment would change nothing.

 

Borders/bondaries for different types of Private schools is not equal across the board either. Catholic schools have the diocese, but a truly independent private school probably has no border.

Here is where the vast amount of counties in KY have had an effect, making many comparisons with other states imposible IMO. I too belive that for most schools, open enrollment would change nothing.

 

Borders/bondaries for different types of Private schools is not equal across the board either. Catholic schools have the diocese, but a truly independent private school probably has no border.

 

I think Calvary Christian is a sleeping giant in NKY. They could draw from all NKY counties from Bracken, Pendleton, Grant and north including Boone, Kenton and Campbell.

 

Also, St. Patrick could easily become a powerhouse in the 10th region if they wanted to aggressively pursue it.

What is the difference from the area that Deming draws students from whether they are open enrollment or not and the area that Lex Catholic draws from?

 

This is a true difference, being in the Lexington Area

 

From my understanding, Lex Catholic has students/athletes from Scott County, Bourbon County, Madison County, Clark County, Montgomery County, Franklin County, Jessamine County, and of course Fayette County.

 

This is true now and the school populatioin is near 900. In the 80's, the school population was well under 300, and I don't belive there were any students from outside the county that I know of. The school nearly had to shut down.

 

Deming could put an identical plan in place that the LC's used and they still would not be to the level of the LC's.

On the bolded part, can you please clarify.

 

They may not be on the level of LC, but there is a measure of sucess that doesn't win the championship. I belive that there are some schools that can do as much as they possibly can do, and have a measure of sucess without winning championships. I would say that the focus on High School sports has changed in the past 20 years, and that would make a transition to sucess more difficult.

As for the bolded, I think some think that LC would not be sucessful without getting athletes from outside Fayette co. When Father Bueter began to put the emphasis on athletics, many of the students from the Parochial schools in Fayette Co., stayed in the Catholic school system, instead of going to a public high school. I think sucess started mainly with this group, and the sucess became a tool that drew other students in the catholic system outside Fayette Co.

I don't disagree with what you have said about girls' sports.

 

I would think that this might INCREASE public school participation in girl's sports because they can compete in them now.

 

Do you really believe that this will in any way shape or form do anything to increase competetiveness?

 

How?