I hope to start teaching within the next year ... at the latest, 09/10 school year. This discussion is depressing me. LOL

 

Once you are in the trenches and you change a life it is all worth it... but some do not see it that way... make sure that you understand people will always critize the job you do, you will never be paid, what even a baby sitter makes, there will be deadlines to meet, anxiety over test scores, anxiety over that student that will go home and not have a meal this evening.

 

But the good news is... you can make a difference... even if the child might not be as productive as some would think he or she should be.

 

Goodluck:thumb:

No, that is not all you can do. You are free to switch professions if conditions within your current profession grow intolerable. That is what I did a few years ago. I trained myself for a different career and when the opportunity presented itself, I made the leap.

 

If I get bored with my current profession, then I will learn to do something else. Never have there been so many opportunities for a person not afraid of change who is willing to learn new skills. Our aging population will open up even more opportunities for career hopping.

 

One thing that I fault our current education system with (aside from runaway tuition costs) is the failure to instill in students the belief that learning must be a lifelong pursuit. Our grandfathers might have been able to confident confidently choose a trade or profession and then work their entire life without changing professions or employers but our children will not have that type of security.

 

The rule of the future will be to learn to adapt or watch yourself become obsolete. It is a future that I relish but one that too many people fear. Schools should be doing a better job teaching students to learn on their own.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. You are asking schools to do a job that is the responsibility of the parents.

 

It used to be that parents spent time teaching their kids work ethic and learning. It might have been while they were hoeing the garden, or putting up fence, or changing the oil in the car, or baking cakes, or canning food or any other time that parents were spending teaching their kids.

 

But for the most part, that is not happening. Parents are not teaching the things that they should be teaching. And yet again it is pawned off onto the teachers to do and grab the blame for when it doesn't work.

If I ran from a hard situation, then I could not look myself in the mirror, again you are right in your primise, if money is what you seek, change as many times as it takes...

I was not talking about money. Had I not switched careers, I would probably be making a little more money than I do now but enjoying myself much less. All I am saying is that anybody who is dissatisfied with their current job, for whatever reason, has no excuse to continue to complain about his or her circumstance. This country has too many opportunities available for anybody willing to take a few well calculated risks.

 

These are the reasons that I do not believe most teachers are underpaid. If they were underpaid to the extent that the NEA, KEA, etc. claim, most would not remain in the profession.

I was not talking about money. Had I not switched careers, I would probably be making a little more money than I do now but enjoying myself much less. All I am saying is that anybody who is dissatisfied with their current job, for whatever reason, has no excuse to continue to complain about his or her circumstance. This country has too many opportunities available for anybody willing to take a few well calculated risks.

 

These are the reasons that I do not believe most teachers are underpaid. If they were underpaid to the extent that the NEA, KEA, etc. claim, most would not remain in the profession.

 

They hope things will get better and they are, but to give can not do it my friend no matter what...

I couldn't disagree with you more. You are asking schools to do a job that is the responsibility of the parents.

 

It used to be that parents spent time teaching their kids work ethic and learning. It might have been while they were hoeing the garden, or putting up fence, or changing the oil in the car, or baking cakes, or canning food or any other time that parents were spending teaching their kids.

 

But for the most part, that is not happening. Parents are not teaching the things that they should be teaching. And yet again it is pawned off onto the teachers to do and grab the blame for when it doesn't work.

I do not disagree that many parents are not living up to their own responsibilities of educating their children, but I think that teaching children to learn falls right behind math and English in importance.

 

Anybody who has a good foundation in reading, writing, and math skills should be able to educate themselves on any subject. Everything else that is taught in schools is just window dressing if kids graduate from high school or college thinking that their education is complete.

I do not disagree that many parents are not living up to their own responsibilities of educating their children, but I think that teaching children to learn falls right behind math and English in importance.

 

Anybody who has a good foundation in reading, writing, and math skills should be able to educate themselves on any subject. Everything else that is taught in schools is just window dressing if kids graduate from high school or college thinking that their education is complete.

 

I can agree with this.

 

I think society has expected schools to be the cure all for all of society's ills and two things are wrong with that. The family should be the cure all and society keeps adding to society's ills and making schools/families jobs harder and putting more and more stumbling blocks in front of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

casino gambling prime example.

I have spoken my peace on this issue! Thanks to everyone's perspective... I appreciate my job more and yet feel even more underpaid! Have a great day!

I couldn't disagree with you more. You are asking schools to do a job that is the responsibility of the parents.

 

It used to be that parents spent time teaching their kids work ethic and learning. It might have been while they were hoeing the garden, or putting up fence, or changing the oil in the car, or baking cakes, or canning food or any other time that parents were spending teaching their kids.

 

But for the most part, that is not happening. Parents are not teaching the things that they should be teaching. And yet again it is pawned off onto the teachers to do and grab the blame for when it doesn't work.

 

I actually agree with Ace here. I think what he is saying is that our job shouldn't be just to impart knowledge put to put students in situations where they are responsible for their own learning, not just hand them their knowledge "on a platter". This is so far from what we actually do.

There is no intangible here. A teacher is worth the salary that it takes to hire one and retain one at a reasonable rate. That is what any worker is worth and that is how the salaries of those of us who work for private companies are determined. The system is not perfect but it seems to work pretty well.

 

I would ask anybody who thinks that they are underpaid, "What are you doing to address the situation?" If the answer is nothing, then that person is not underpaid. They are content with their current plight in life or else they would be working to improve their lots. Personal situations sometimes force people to stay with a job with which they are dissatisfied in the short term, but anybody who whines for years about being underpaid gets no sympathy from me.

 

Then based on capitalist economics you will hirer the most effective teacher at the lowest rate. Therefore schools will not higher the MOST EFFECTIVE teachers because they will cost more. You see, your capitalist ideas don't work in education b/c the REVENUE end is not based on capitalism.

If a person is motivated solely by money, which too many in this country are, I would agree with you.

 

Some can choose to stay at their jobs knowing that they may help some kid change the path of their job while still wanting to bring light to the problem of being underpaid.

 

They might be willing to accept being underpaid while all the time trying to change that so that your child may learn to read and write and handle math problems.

 

Thank God for people like that who don't hold $$$ as the motivation to do what they do in life.

 

But at the same time, that should not mean that they are to then sit quietly and accept their lot in life, does it?

 

Let me ask you a capitalists question Aces: If you have the choice to pay big bucks for a high quality product or 1/2 price for a lower quality product, which are you going to buy? Be careful on what you pay for as a society for education, you just might be getting the quality of product that you have paid for.

 

 

Would you go to work tomorrow if you weren't going to be paid for it?

Then based on capitalist economics you will hirer the most effective teacher at the lowest rate. Therefore schools will not higher the MOST EFFECTIVE teachers because they will cost more. You see, your capitalist ideas don't work in education b/c the REVENUE end is not based on capitalism.

 

The marketplace has been taken out of much of education. For many, there is no recourse to a bad school. I would favor teacher salaries based on performance. The better the teacher, the more they get paid. I am aware that teacher performance is VERY subjective, but that is what school administrators are for. Raising teacher salaries would also attract some very talented people to teaching. According to Walter Williams, the SAT scores in the school of education are the lowest in most universities. That is directly related to pay. Would highly paid and highly qualified teachers cost more in taxes? You bet. Within a generation or two the return on investment would make us wonder why it took us so long to do it.

Then based on capitalist economics you will hirer the most effective teacher at the lowest rate. Therefore schools will not higher the MOST EFFECTIVE teachers because they will cost more. You see, your capitalist ideas don't work in education b/c the REVENUE end is not based on capitalism.

 

But if each school had a reason to hire the best candidates (just as a company has reasons to hire the best CEO's and such--profits) then teachers would get paid higher and would be challenged to teach more efficiently.

 

You are correct that in the current system, there is no reason to hire better teachers (or expect more from teachers) because the public schools aren't going to lose students. But the current system, as Trinityalum just said, is not a market system.

Then based on capitalist economics you will hirer the most effective teacher at the lowest rate. Therefore schools will not higher the MOST EFFECTIVE teachers because they will cost more. You see, your capitalist ideas don't work in education b/c the REVENUE end is not based on capitalism.

"Capitalist economics" do not dictate that a company hire the most effective employee at the lowest rate, and I have made this clear in my previous posts.

 

When companies hire people, they do not necessarily hire the best qualified person for the job - nor should they. Depending on the position, sometimes an employer is better off hiring a less experienced applicant and training them than hiring a more experienced employee who may be resistant to retraining. Retaining employees is important, and an applicant who provides great references from previous employers but has held three jobs in the previous five years should have some 'splaining to do.

 

Many teachers seem determined to prevent employers from assessing the job performance of teachers and tying salaries to performance. For some reason, they assume that principals and other school administrators will be more subjective and more unfair than their counterparts in management in the private sector.

 

School management and salary administration are the areas where I believe schools and all government organizations need to borrow from the private sector. This is less about capitalism v. socialism than it is an appeal to use common sense management techniques that work well in millions of businesses every day.

 

How productive would American businesses be if they granted tenure to employees and based their pay structures strictly on seniority, college hours, and attendance?

"Capitalist economics" do not dictate that a company hire the most effective employee at the lowest rate, and I have made this clear in my previous posts.

 

When companies hire people, they do not necessarily hire the best qualified person for the job - nor should they. Depending on the position, sometimes an employer is better off hiring a less experienced applicant and training them than hiring a more experienced employee who may be resistant to retraining. Retaining employees is important, and an applicant who provides great references from previous employers but has held three jobs in the previous five years should have some 'splaining to do.

 

Many teachers seem determined to prevent employers from assessing the job performance of teachers and tying salaries to performance. For some reason, they assume that principals and other school administrators will be more subjective and more unfair than their counterparts in management in the private sector.

 

School management and salary administration are the areas where I believe schools and all government organizations need to borrow from the private sector. This is less about capitalism v. socialism than it is an appeal to use common sense management techniques that work well in millions of businesses every day.

How productive would American businesses be if they granted tenure to employees and based their pay structures strictly on seniority, college hours, and attendance?

 

You are comparing something that is intangible to something like a car??? Not practical

This thread has to hold the record for most dodged questions in the history of BGP. "If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball."