Not to be mean but how many of them have a college degree, master's, Rank I

 

I do agree with you it is a choice, but the discussion is dealing with money and education, are teachers underpaid, I feel yes, but I am greedy and I am a teacher. Others feel no we get what we deserve:cry: I make the arguement for the education that teachers are required to get, we are:ylsuper: Others do not see it that way:cry: I make the arguement that teacher's job is very subjective because there are so many intangiables:ylsuper: Others say look at the test scores:cry: I say teachers should demand better pay with the more education:jump: Othes say that I should be happy to have 6 weeks off a year:fight:

 

That is the jest of what I have read, by the way if you are reading this go and thank a teacher, and when you do your job today, thank a teacher, when you pay those bills (using those math skills), thank a teacher, when you cook dinner tonight, thank a teacher! When you go to bed tonight, pray for all the teachers that they all could make a difference in each individual student's life, and then thank God for teachers:dancingpa

 

Nice smiley management:thumb: BTW most teachers have more than 6 weeks off.

Nice smiley management:thumb: BTW most teachers have more than 6 weeks off.

 

Not accurate.

 

At my PD yesterday, guy had a great comment about getting non-teachers to understand the job that teachers do.

 

How does a banana taste? You can't understand how a banana tastes unless you eat the banana.

 

Same with teaching. You cannot understand the job a teacher does unless you are teaching.

Not accurate.

 

At my PD yesterday, guy had a great comment about getting non-teachers to understand the job that teachers do.

 

How does a banana taste? You can't understand how a banana tastes unless you eat the banana.

 

Same with teaching. You cannot understand the job a teacher does unless you are teaching.

 

What is not accurate? You know that I am not familiar with the job?

Nice smiley management:thumb: BTW most teachers have more than 6 weeks off.

 

Perhaps, but few other jobs require you to bring the work home with you or work on the weekends. When do papers get graded? Lesson plans made? Writing pieces editted? Lab activities put together? Projects graded? I do all of this during my 40 minute planning period? No, it gets done at night and weekends.

 

How many other jobs is this true for? I don't know. My mother is an RN, for whom I have the utmost respect. But when she is off, she doesn't work. My father was a miner before he retired. When he was off, he didn't work. My best friend's husband is a chemist at power plant. When he is off, he doesn't work.

 

So any "lengthy" time my fellow teachers and I get off in the summer is COMP time for the extra hours we put in every day.

What is not accurate? You know that I am not familiar with the job?

 

During June and July of this year, there will be 9 weeks this summer. Many, many, many, many teachers will be enrolled in college that is REQUIRED by law. Teachers without masters have to have 15 hours of work done in their first 5 years and it completed in 10 or they lose their teaching certification.

 

So, any teacher less than 5 years, almost guarantee that they will be enrolled in classes all summer or at least most of the summer.

 

In addition, probably 1/4 of the staff will be teaching in the summer school programs in which kids who have failed the previous year and in danger of falling behind in the pursuit of a diploma. That is an 8 week program I believe.

 

In addition, add another approximate 1/4 of the staff that will be involved in teaching of classes that are aimed at the gifted and talented portion. In my district they will have classes aimed at computers, chess, artwork, leadership, math, caving, etc, etc, etc.

 

In addition, there is usually a week or two of professional developments, conferences, department meetings, etc for teacher to participate in. I will be attending a 4-day conference in Lexington the last week of June on behavorial issues in the classroom. (I believe that is for the student's behavior and not mine but I could be wrong there.)

 

In addition, teachers will work days during the summer on school projects like aligning the curriculum K-12 so that things are not being repeated by the 7th grade teacher and the 10th grade teacher that does not need to be repeated. Other teachers will serve on interview committees looking for staff to fill the openings that are creating by the turnover of teachers. Remember the national average lifespan of a teacher teaching is only 3.5 years. Some summers, there have been as many as 1/3 of the staff to replace.

 

In addition, sponsors of clubs like DECA, FBLA, FFA, FHA will have summer officer leadership camps to attend that are a week long. Others have summer conferences the students attend. Others like FFA will work the fair and the teacher must be involved in it. And this for their $200 annual stipend for sponsoring a club.

 

Site-based and the committees that have sprung from site-based will continue to meet and establish rules and policies for the school.

 

In addition, band teachers have band camp and practices for marching band during the summer.

 

In addition, you have coaches. On the girls side, we would play 70-80 basketball games each summer not to mention practices.

 

In addition, many teachers work maintenance for the summer, painting and cleaning the buildings to get the school ready for the next summer.

 

When a statement is made that they have 6 weeks off, the image pops into peoples minds that we spend the summer like Peg Bundy, getting up at 11:00 eating bon-bons and watching soaps all day. That is far, far from the truth.

 

Do a few do that? Probably. Most? Inaccurate.

During June and July of this year, there will be 9 weeks this summer. Many, many, many, many teachers will be enrolled in college that is REQUIRED by law. Teachers without masters have to have 15 hours of work done in their first 5 years and it completed in 10 or they lose their teaching certification.

 

So, any teacher less than 5 years, almost guarantee that they will be enrolled in classes all summer or at least most of the summer.

 

In addition, probably 1/4 of the staff will be teaching in the summer school programs in which kids who have failed the previous year and in danger of falling behind in the pursuit of a diploma. That is an 8 week program I believe.

 

In addition, add another approximate 1/4 of the staff that will be involved in teaching of classes that are aimed at the gifted and talented portion. In my district they will have classes aimed at computers, chess, artwork, leadership, math, caving, etc, etc, etc.

 

In addition, there is usually a week or two of professional developments, conferences, department meetings, etc for teacher to participate in. I will be attending a 4-day conference in Lexington the last week of June on behavorial issues in the classroom. (I believe that is for the student's behavior and not mine but I could be wrong there.)

 

In addition, teachers will work days during the summer on school projects like aligning the curriculum K-12 so that things are not being repeated by the 7th grade teacher and the 10th grade teacher that does not need to be repeated. Other teachers will serve on interview committees looking for staff to fill the openings that are creating by the turnover of teachers. Remember the national average lifespan of a teacher teaching is only 3.5 years. Some summers, there have been as many as 1/3 of the staff to replace.

 

In addition, sponsors of clubs like DECA, FBLA, FFA, FHA will have summer officer leadership camps to attend that are a week long. Others have summer conferences the students attend. Others like FFA will work the fair and the teacher must be involved in it. And this for their $200 annual stipend for sponsoring a club.

 

Site-based and the committees that have sprung from site-based will continue to meet and establish rules and policies for the school.

 

In addition, band teachers have band camp and practices for marching band during the summer.

 

In addition, you have coaches. On the girls side, we would play 70-80 basketball games each summer not to mention practices.

 

In addition, many teachers work maintenance for the summer, painting and cleaning the buildings to get the school ready for the next summer.

 

When a statement is made that they have 6 weeks off, the image pops into peoples minds that we spend the summer like Peg Bundy, getting up at 11:00 eating bon-bons and watching soaps all day. That is far, far from the truth.

 

Do a few do that? Probably. Most? Inaccurate.

 

I have no bone to pick with the teaching profession. I believe anything they can get it is more than deserved. I just think some of these points are exagerated.

Summer School? Why would you have 25% of your teachers teaching summer school, unless you have that % of students in that program Lord help a school district that has that many failing. Are those teaching summer school not compensated over and above their normal salary to do so? I don't know.

 

I understand the education demands on teachers. What also comes with that 10 year mandatory education is tenure. I am a salaried employee for a major corporation. We don't get tenured.

 

As far as the extra-curricular activities, I don't believe anyone is forced to do these. As for coaches, a lot are now paraprofesionals, from the private sector. And yes they may be compensated the same as a teacher would. Why do we have so many paraprofessionals now? Because the teachers don't want to put in the time. So you now have private sector employees doing this after perhaps a 10-12 day. Why would they do that? You know why.

 

Besides 8-10weeks of summer,you failed to mention Christmas and Spring Break. 2 more weeks at least.

The last thing I want to do is ruffle any feathers here. I believe fot the amount of education a teacher recieves, that yes they are underpaid, comparatively speaking to their peers.

I have no bone to pick with the teaching profession. I believe anything they can get it is more than deserved. I just think some of these points are exagerated.

Summer School? Why would you have 25% of your teachers teaching summer school, unless you have that % of students in that program Lord help a school district that has that many failing. Are those teaching summer school not compensated over and above their normal salary to do so? I don't know.

 

I understand the education demands on teachers. What also comes with that 10 year mandatory education is tenure. I am a salaried employee for a major corporation. We don't get tenured.

 

As far as the extra-curricular activities, I don't believe anyone is forced to do these. As for coaches, a lot are now paraprofesionals, from the private sector. And yes they may be compensated the same as a teacher would. Why do we have so many paraprofessionals now? Because the teachers don't want to put in the time. So you now have private sector employees doing this after perhaps a 10-12 day. Why would they do that? You know why.

 

Besides 8-10weeks of summer,you failed to mention Christmas and Spring Break. 2 more weeks at least.

The last thing I want to do is ruffle any feathers here. I believe fot the amount of education a teacher recieves, that yes they are underpaid, comparatively speaking to their peers.

 

The teacher/student ratio is much lower in the summer because you need more one on one teaching. We have approximately 40 teachers on staff and about 8-10 are involved in summer school as teachers or summer school principal.

 

They are compensated but your comment was not on pay but having the summer off. Some teachers MUST do it or the kids fall behind and then don't graduate.

 

A lot of companies have unions that allow the workers to go on strike for better benefits, wages. BY LAW, it is illegal for teachers to go on strike. Also, unions can help protect a worker from being fired. Tenure does not prevent a teacher from being fired. Just makes sure that it is a logical and good reason and not because the principal does not like them. And tenure comes at 5 years not 10. So I don't see you tying the required master's work with tenure as you get tenure before you get your masters. In addition, you can add education after master's. To be a counselor, 30 more hours. To be an administrator, 30 more hours. So, teachers continue on through master's 30 hours, so that they can fill the role of principals and counselors.

 

If you are going to be an AG teacher, you are going to be a FFA advisor. If you are going to be a business teacher, you are going to be a FBLA advisor. If you are going to be a Family & Consumer Science teacher, (Home Ec) then you are going to be a FHA advisor. Same with marketing and DECA. THese are co-curricular and you don't have one without the other.

 

And yeah sometimes they are made. New teachers are given a choice on which clubs they want to sponsor not a choice of WHETHER they want to sponsor or not.

 

Coaching some don't want to put the time in and some don't have the time to put in. That time is being used in other ways to support the school.

 

Spring Break, I have two days off this year. Good Friday and Monday after Easter.

 

At the same amount of years experience that my mom had as a bank teller at 5/3, she was earning 4 weeks of vacation per year. If you are going to compare day to day, take out the time of vacation that other jobs have. To be fair.

 

My comments are not addressing the pay issue because your comment was not addressing the pay issue. It said MOST teachers get MORE than 6 weeks off in the summer. I was simply listing the inaccuracies of that.

 

If you are counting simply days in classroom with students, than you are close but then you are disregarding all of the things that teachers must do in order to be IN THE CLASSROOM with students.

I was just using six weeks... well to tell the truth I don't know why that number came to mind...lol. But Coach has it about right.

Perhaps, but few other jobs require you to bring the work home with you or work on the weekends. When do papers get graded? Lesson plans made? Writing pieces editted? Lab activities put together? Projects graded? I do all of this during my 40 minute planning period? No, it gets done at night and weekends.

 

How many other jobs is this true for? I don't know. My mother is an RN, for whom I have the utmost respect. But when she is off, she doesn't work. My father was a miner before he retired. When he was off, he didn't work. My best friend's husband is a chemist at power plant. When he is off, he doesn't work.

 

So any "lengthy" time my fellow teachers and I get off in the summer is COMP time for the extra hours we put in every day.

 

I'm in accounting and I've NEVER had a position that didn't require both on a regular basis. I believe most professional positions do require night and weekend work, just the nature of the beast.

I'm in accounting and I've NEVER had a position that didn't require both on a regular basis. I believe most professional positions do require night and weekend work, just the nature of the beast.

 

 

You're right. I am not an accountant, so I don't know the job and shouldn't make assumptions...just as those who are not educators cannot do about my job (not directed toward you, 75).

 

At some point, that would make a good topic - how many outside hours various professions spend on their jobs.

I'm in accounting and I've NEVER had a position that didn't require both on a regular basis. I believe most professional positions do require night and weekend work, just the nature of the beast.

 

Just out of curiosity (and ignorance), are those billable hours that you take home? I know that in some professions you can bill for any work done on a case or job no matter where the work is done. Is that the same with CPA's or do you only charge flat fee regardless of the time spent?

You're right. I am not an accountant, so I don't know the job and shouldn't make assumptions...just as those who are not educators cannot do about my job (not directed toward you, 75).

 

At some point, that would make a good topic - how many outside hours various professions spend on their jobs.

 

No problem, I freely admit there is no way I could teach and am truly impressed and grateful for those who can.

Just out of curiosity (and ignorance), are those billable hours that you take home? I know that in some professions you can bill for any work done on a case or job no matter where the work is done. Is that the same with CPA's or do you only charge flat fee regardless of the time spent?

 

I'm now in business for myself. When I was in industry billable hours were not an issue. Many of those hours are not billable, either because they do not involve identifiable clients or if I billed them they would take their business elsewhere. It's different with larger CPA firms with larger clients.

I'm now in business for myself. When I was in industry billable hours were not an issue. Many of those hours are not billable, either because they do not involve identifiable clients or if I billed them they would take their business elsewhere. It's different with larger CPA firms with larger clients.

 

Thanks. :thumb:

You cannot apply capitalistic principles to an organization that does not generate revenue.

 

Do universities generate revenue? College professors certainly make more then middle-school and high school teachers.