Traditional (Catholic) Mass

[Jim Schue]

Since moving to Bardstown, I have begun to get better (re)connected to my Catholic faith. There is apparently a controversy brewing in New Haven in the southern end of Nelson County over a priest gearing the services onto a more traditional path, with some Latin services and a reduced role of women in the services.

 

I really don't have an opinion one way or another on the matter. I have experienced the Traditional Latin Mass before and appreciate it. Also gave me a good reason to learn some Latin.

 

I recall reading a story in the Post before its demise about a traditional congregation somewhere in NoKy and I remember some controversy arising out of that as well.

 

Anyone who is familiar with this movement or is a regular attendee of the traditional services, I would be interested in your comments about the matter.

 

Thanks.

[RebelK]

I will admit that I am totally lost when they use Latin for some of our services, which they do during Lent. It seems that the only people in church that are saying anything during these times are the people who have been Catholic their entire lives.

 

We were in Bardstown a few weeks ago and we went to St. Joseph for mass and I was totally confused by something. While they were having communion the entire church stood. We kneel before we go up and after we come back from communion so seeing everyone standing the entire time was different for us.

 

As for your question, I haven't been Catholic long enough (2 years) to have any comment on the difference. MrRk, being a Catholic his entire life says that it's much better now that it was years ago.

[PutMeInCoach]

In NKY I believe it's St. Cecilia that caused all the fuss about the traditional mass. I find it interesting, even though I don't have any idea what's going on I think it's pretty cool.. It'd take some getting use to but I wouldn't be totally against it. My grandma is fluent in Latin so she really enjoys it.

[Getslow]

I've never liked the words "traditional mass." I prefer "Tridentine Mass" as a reference to its mandate by the Council of Trent. In Louisville, St. Martin of Tours is the place to go for this... and what do you know, that's where I go. I grew up in a church that did only the novus ordo mass, as was the mandate following Vatican II. As I've grown older, I've found I get more out of going to the Tridentine Mass.

 

The novus ordo, I feel, is too much about the entire congregation following along rather than reflecting and praying. During the Tridentine Mass, there is opportunity for a person to read along in the missal and reflect on the individual parts of the mass and the scripture while listening to the beauty of a sung mass and the chant responses done by the choir. There is a great deal of beauty in the Tridentine Mass.

[Getslow]

We were in Bardstown a few weeks ago and we went to St. Joseph for mass and I was totally confused by something. While they were having communion the entire church stood. We kneel before we go up and after we come back from communion so seeing everyone standing the entire time was different for us.

 

That's the novus ordo mass for you. Individual parishes have been given a lot of leeway. I live in the Highlands in Louisville and have five Catholic churches within a mile. Each one does things that are, in some little ways, different than the others.

[cshs81]

There is a parish in Norwood/Cincinnati that has Mass in Latin.

[formerkywrestler]

Since moving to Bardstown, I have begun to get better (re)connected to my Catholic faith. There is apparently a controversy brewing in New Haven in the southern end of Nelson County over a priest gearing the services onto a more traditional path, with some Latin services and a reduced role of women in the services.

 

I really don't have an opinion one way or another on the matter. I have experienced the Traditional Latin Mass before and appreciate it. Also gave me a good reason to learn some Latin.

 

I recall reading a story in the Post before its demise about a traditional congregation somewhere in NoKy and I remember some controversy arising out of that as well.

 

Anyone who is familiar with this movement or is a regular attendee of the traditional services, I would be interested in your comments about the matter.

 

Thanks.

I'm assuming this is at St. Catherine's? That's where my sisters go to church and school at. But due to their age they are probably out of the loop on this. Can you fill me in a little more?

[Theoldguy]

There is a parish in Norwood/Cincinnati that has Mass in Latin.

 

It was once a Roman Catholic Church (where my wife was baptized and we were married at) but they sold the property when the Archdiocese of Cincinnati merged some Norwood Catholic Churches. It is a Church that the Archdiocese of Cincinnati does not recognize. It is near Smith and Floral.

 

While I was raised in the time that Mass was said in only Latin, and while I enjoy some of the Latin songs, I prefer Mass being said in English.

 

True story, when my daughter first became a server, she knew that I was one when I was a kid, but she asked her Mom if she had served, and when her Mom told her, that back in those day's girls weren't even allowed on the altar, she gave her Mom the strangest look, like are you kidding me....

[Birdsfan]

During the Tridentine Mass, there is opportunity for a person to read along in the missal and reflect on the individual parts of the mass and the scripture while listening to the beauty of a sung mass and the chant responses done by the choir. There is a great deal of beauty in the Tridentine Mass.

But aren't you pretty much lost the whole time unless you're fluent in Latin?

 

 

This trend toward a return to the more traditional mass was initiated by the current Pope. The way I understand it, he's turned the clock back on a lot of Vatican II reforms.

[PepRock01]

I've never liked the words "traditional mass." I prefer "Tridentine Mass" as a reference to its mandate by the Council of Trent. In Louisville, St. Martin of Tours is the place to go for this... and what do you know, that's where I go. I grew up in a church that did only the novus ordo mass, as was the mandate following Vatican II. As I've grown older, I've found I get more out of going to the Tridentine Mass.

 

The novus ordo, I feel, is too much about the entire congregation following along rather than reflecting and praying. During the Tridentine Mass, there is opportunity for a person to read along in the missal and reflect on the individual parts of the mass and the scripture while listening to the beauty of a sung mass and the chant responses done by the choir. There is a great deal of beauty in the Tridentine Mass.

 

I concur with you on this.

 

But aren't you pretty much lost the whole time unless you're fluent in Latin?

 

 

This trend toward a return to the more traditional mass was initiated by the current Pope. The way I understand it, he's turned the clock back on a lot of Vatican II reforms.

 

 

It really isn't that hard to figure it out if you have the order of mass right in front of you. And I am going to disagree with you on "turning back the clock" because I find it to be returning to our more pious roots. I have been in many a church in Louisville and I cringe, I absolutely CRINGE when I see a Gather book sitting in the pew. I have no problem with the norvus ordo, in fact the parish I attend and sing at uses a combination the norvus ordo and we do quite a bit in Latin. In fact I haven't sung the Sanctus, Mistery Fidei or Agnus Dei in English since I got there. The biggest problem I have is that we have completely thrown out the Catechism in our education, which is one of the reasons why SO many Catholics barely know anything about being Catholic other than just showing up on Sunday.

 

I don't like the idea of standing while the Blessed Sacrament is present as opposed to kneeling either.

[Ironlung]

There is a Latin Tridentine Mass offered every Sunday at St Bernard in Dayton Ky at 12:15 which is sanctioned by the Covington Diocese. It was moved from the Cathedral a few months ago.

[rockmom]

I love the Tridentine Mass.

 

I guess the issue with understanding Latin is an issue of how you grew up.

 

I grew up in (at the time) was probably one of the most traditional parishes in Louisville. Father Pank didn't hold to all that "feel good" stuff....no shaking hands, no holdning hands during the Our Father....

 

Our High Masses heavily utilized hymns in Latin and they were extraordinarily beautiful Masses.

 

We learned the Latin Mass in religion classes, and the hymns in our music classes. We were part of the choir on Christmas and Easter.

 

I remember those Masses as the best I've ever attended for their ability to inspire spirituality.

 

Theoldguy...my kids both had the same reaction when I told them the same thing about servers. We also weren't allowed to read readings either. We went to confession every Saturday. And we went to Mass every day before school started. Heck, I even wore a mantilla to Mass until I was 8! :eek:

[cch5432]

I haven't been to a Latin mass in my life but while I don't think I would mind it, I think I prefer the English mass.

 

That being said, I can't stand the many liberties that a lot of parishes take with mass, such as holding hands during the Our Father, the parishioners raising their hands during the Consecration as if they are performing the Sacrament, and (this may make some people upset), people's insistence of saying "God" instead of "He" during various parts of the Mass. (On the last part, it is not that I am sexist, but it just seems so unnecessary even debating the gender of God, which I don't think matters/exists really. )

 

None of these things are THAT huge of a problem, just little things that annoy me.

[Jim Schue]

Thanks for the information, guys.

 

Judging from some of the responses, I bet you guys would've really found the services interesting at St. William in London. I was floored when I went there over how much it seemed like a Baptist service.

[RebelK]

I concur with you on this.

 

 

 

 

It really isn't that hard to figure it out if you have the order of mass right in front of you. And I am going to disagree with you on "turning back the clock" because I find it to be returning to our more pious roots. I have been in many a church in Louisville and I cringe, I absolutely CRINGE when I see a Gather book sitting in the pew. I have no problem with the norvus ordo, in fact the parish I attend and sing at uses a combination the norvus ordo and we do quite a bit in Latin. In fact I haven't sung the Sanctus, Mistery Fidei or Agnus Dei in English since I got there. The biggest problem I have is that we have completely thrown out the Catechism in our education, which is one of the reasons why SO many Catholics barely know anything about being Catholic other than just showing up on Sunday.

 

I don't like the idea of standing while the Blessed Sacrament is present as opposed to kneeling either.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. My parish, and quite a few more in our surrounding area, are offering a class "Why Catholic". It is for 6 weeks during Lent and we will come back in the fall for more classes. It has been such a great time for me and I would recommend it to anyone. It talks about our faith and it works the Catechism into it.

 

I also have a problem with people standing while the Blessed Sacrament is present. I find it disrepectful when people don't kneel. My husband said that perhaps people stand because they can't, for a physical reason, kneel. I could, almost, understand that reason but for an entire church to stand. I have a hard time kneeling with my left knee but I some how manage to do it. Please don't get me wrong, if you truly can't kneel then you shouldn't but in my opinion you could just sit on the edge of the bench and pray.

 

I'm not quite sure how I feel about holding hands during the Our Father. On one hand I kinda like it but on the other hand I could do without it. I have noticed that there are quite a few people who do not hold hands.

 

One thing I do have a problem with is before mass starts we are instructed to turn around and greet the people around you. I never liked doing this in the Baptist church and I like it even less now.