Maybe you have something there. But to me, that's like saying you don't try for an A, because a B is pretty good. And, seriously, the clammor for a split is about championships. And when the same few public schools become the new dominant, evil empire....what then?

 

 

For some it might be. For some it is not. It is the fair chance to compete for them.

 

For some, I truly believe, and honestly my knowledge is more about girls' basketball than football so know the slant I speak for, it is about that fair chance to compete against like schools for the championships.

 

If I compete against a school similar to mine and I am beat, they were the better team.

 

But I compete against a team that is made up of 3-4-5-10 different communities, I don't know they are a better team just an all-star team going up against my county team. Same as me taking my HS team and competing in the AAU division. Signing up for it, I know that I am at a disadvantage because the other teams are going to be all-star teams from multiple communities where I am trying to develop the players I will have on my team in high school.

LBBC If winning isn't that important then maybe we should just eliminate ALL championships.

 

Or even better lets stop keeping score all together and just participate for the thrill of participation.

 

I used to coach volleyball at the varsity level and to say my team was terrible would be a compliment. I had 11 girls who gave their all but had little or no talent and I have to tell you we started both seasons that I coached talking about championships, knowing that we had 0 chance of winning one. If you don't aspire to greatness then what is the use in playing?

 

Do you tell the kids that play for you that they can't win a championship?

LBBC If winning isn't that important then maybe we should just eliminate ALL championships.

 

Or even better lets stop keeping score all together and just participate for the thrill of participation.

 

I used to coach volleyball at the varsity level and to say my team was terrible would be a compliment. I had 11 girls who gave their all but had little or no talent and I have to tell you we started both seasons that I coached talking about championships, knowing that we had 0 chance of winning one. If you don't aspire to greatness then what is the use in playing?

 

Do you tell the kids that play for you that they can't win a championship?

 

Absolutely not. They have their place but it is not the end all.

 

One of the things you have to realize, I have a BASKETBALL mindset, not football. One state championship, okay two.

 

If Deming makes it to the regional championship game this year and does not make it to the Final 4, it is a SUCCESS of a season. Ask the Augusta supporters on here that if their school of 80something for grades K-12 make it to the regional semifinals whether they will consider it a successful season or not.

 

Paris girls just lost in the finals of the state Class A. Want to tell them their season is a failure because they didn't hoist the championship trophy?

 

Championships has it's place and are great goals.

 

But they are not the only goals nor should they be the only standards to evaluate the season.

 

Trinity basketball loses in the Sat morning semifinals at state basketball tournament this season. Season a success or failure?

 

 

With my team, playing in the state tournament was ONE of our goals every year. But we could also accomplish 5-6 goals without that one every occurring. Meaning we could have a very successful and did have very successful seasons without accomplishing that one goal.

No, I think you're more likely to find that handful of public schools wanting to join the private association. Then the KHSAA's public school "everyone wins a trophy" association will be a nationwide joke.

 

No public school would be caught dead joining a private school association, unless Highlands would. They would be the only ones.

Absolutely not. They have their place but it is not the end all.

 

One of the things you have to realize, I have a BASKETBALL mindset, not football. One state championship, okay two.

 

If Deming makes it to the regional championship game this year and does not make it to the Final 4, it is a SUCCESS of a season. Ask the Augusta supporters on here that if their school of 80something for grades K-12 make it to the regional semifinals whether they will consider it a successful season or not.

 

Paris girls just lost in the finals of the state Class A. Want to tell them their season is a failure because they didn't hoist the championship trophy?

 

Championships has it's place and are great goals.

 

But they are not the only goals nor should they be the only standards to evaluate the season.

 

Trinity basketball loses in the Sat morning semifinals at state basketball tournament this season. Season a success or failure?

 

 

With my team, playing in the state tournament was ONE of our goals every year. But we could also accomplish 5-6 goals without that one every occurring. Meaning we could have a very successful and did have very successful seasons without accomplishing that one goal.

 

I don't disagree with your logic at all as to what's a successful year.

 

Which is why I can't understand your logic for thinking there should be an open vs closed split. If your closed school works its tail off, does everything it can to win, yet loses to an open school in the playoffs, it should still be considered a successful season. Kids on the team can say they did all that they could to win state but got beat by a team that had certain advantages; but at least they got the opportunity to get on the field and try to beat them. Any true athlete wants to opportunity to win the game that no one thinks they should; they want to play the best. Split the opens and the closed and they'll never get that opportunity.

I don't disagree with your logic at all as to what's a successful year.

 

Which is why I can't understand your logic for thinking there should be an open vs closed split. If your closed school works its tail off, does everything it can to win, yet loses to an open school in the playoffs, it should still be considered a successful season. Kids on the team can say they did all that they could to win state but got beat by a team that had certain advantages; but at least they got the opportunity to get on the field and try to beat them. Any true athlete wants to opportunity to win the game that no one thinks they should; they want to play the best. Split the opens and the closed and they'll never get that opportunity.

 

 

100% on target.

 

If you never get the chance to play the best you never know exactly where you stand in the big picture.

I don't disagree with your logic at all as to what's a successful year.

 

Which is why I can't understand your logic for thinking there should be an open vs closed split. If your closed school works its tail off, does everything it can to win, yet loses to an open school in the playoffs, it should still be considered a successful season. Kids on the team can say they did all that they could to win state but got beat by a team that had certain advantages; but at least they got the opportunity to get on the field and try to beat them. Any true athlete wants to opportunity to win the game that no one thinks they should; they want to play the best. Split the opens and the closed and they'll never get that opportunity.

 

100% on target.

 

If you never get the chance to play the best you never know exactly where you stand in the big picture.

 

Using your guys logic, I would think that Highlands, CovCath, Beechwood, NCC will be petitioning to play 6A next year.

Using your guys logic, I would think that Highlands, CovCath, Beechwood, NCC will be petitioning to play 6A next year.

 

It would probably be in 09 before they could do that:D.

 

I understand your point. But the KHSAA tries to go with objective reasons for the classifications. Size is pretty objective and is supported by the simple logic that if you are looking for a really good apple and you have 1000 apple trees to find one, your chances are greater than if you only have 1 apple tree. Size is definitely an advantage.

 

Open vs closed is more subjective in my opinion. In many years, schools that allow open enrollment may have no one from outside the district, or from the KHSAA's athletically focused perspective, may not have any or very few kids playing athletics. Thus no advantage realized. Plus as I've stated on here several times, I don't think it will result in much change as I still believe that if currently open schools did not want to be placed in a separate class, they'd just elect to go closed and some of the families would just move into the district and be able to attend. Since there would be a move involved, their kids would be able to participate right away.

 

Personally I like the logic in your post that I previously quoted. If the coach does a good job teaching good life lessons to the kids, they work their tails off, a fully committed and get beat, its still a success. Heck, I consider Highlands football last year (06) when we went 7-5 to be very successful. Sure we lost 5 games, but they were to Elder, Lou. St. X, Cols St Francis DeSales and twice to the 3A state CovCath team that was in my opinion the best overall team that CovCath has ever head. Certainly no shame in those losses. The kids on the 06 Highlands team worked their tails off, were fully committed, got great leadership from the seniors and learned some valuable lessons from Dale about life. It was a successful season to me. While I like most Highlands fans want state championship teams every year, as long as the kids were truly committed to doing their best, I don't consider the players unsuccessful just because they did not win state. And I'm not the least bit upset that all 5 teams they lost to were private Catholic schools; not the least bit.

It would probably be in 09 before they could do that:D.

 

I understand your point. But the KHSAA tries to go with objective reasons for the classifications. Size is pretty objective and is supported by the simple logic that if you are looking for a really good apple and you have 1000 apple trees to find one, your chances are greater than if you only have 1 apple tree. Size is definitely an advantage.

 

Open vs closed is more subjective in my opinion. In many years, schools that allow open enrollment may have no one from outside the district, or from the KHSAA's athletically focused perspective, may not have any or very few kids playing athletics. Thus no advantage realized. Plus as I've stated on here several times, I don't think it will result in much change as I still believe that if currently open schools did not want to be placed in a separate class, they'd just elect to go closed and some of the families would just move into the district and be able to attend. Since there would be a move involved, their kids would be able to participate right away.

 

Personally I like the logic in your post that I previously quoted. If the coach does a good job teaching good life lessons to the kids, they work their tails off, a fully committed and get beat, its still a success. Heck, I consider Highlands football last year (06) when we went 7-5 to be very successful. Sure we lost 5 games, but they were to Elder, Lou. St. X, Cols St Francis DeSales and twice to the 3A state CovCath team that was in my opinion the best overall team that CovCath has ever head. Certainly no shame in those losses. The kids on the 06 Highlands team worked their tails off, were fully committed, got great leadership from the seniors and learned some valuable lessons from Dale about life. It was a successful season to me. While I like most Highlands fans want state championship teams every year, as long as the kids were truly committed to doing their best, I don't consider the players unsuccessful just because they did not win state. And I'm not the least bit upset that all 5 teams they lost to were private Catholic schools; not the least bit.

 

..C'mon Sarge...those CovCath losses STILL eat at you!!! :laugh:

One of the things you have to realize, I have a BASKETBALL mindset, not football. One state championship, okay two.

 

So you're saying we need to split basketball into classes then?

 

It would certainly go a long way to removing some teams from the dominance of the girls schools in Louisville and the 2 privates in L exington.

So you're saying we need to split basketball into classes then?

 

It would certainly go a long way to removing some teams from the dominance of the girls schools in Louisville and the 2 privates in L exington.

 

I have said two divisions. Open and closed. Let like schools compete against like schools. Depending on the numbers in each, you might want to look at size divisions but you wouldn't have an accurate count of how many schools in each till each local school district determines whether they are going to be open or closed.

I have said two divisions. Open and closed. Let like schools compete against like schools. Depending on the numbers in each, you might want to look at size divisions but you wouldn't have an accurate count of how many schools in each till each local school district determines whether they are going to be open or closed.

 

 

If LexCath or Assumption only accepted players from their particular diocese then it would still be closed for them, would it not?

If LexCath or Assumption only accepted players from their particular diocese then it would still be closed for them, would it not?

 

Depends on how big of a community that covers. I would look at realistic communities and not just diocese to make it fair across the board. I would assume that all of Jefferson County could not be considered a community to draw from anywhere.

 

My understanding is that Lex Catholic's diocese is from Pikeville to Frankfort, Berea to Georgetown. No way that can be considered closed when they can draw from probably close to 20 counties.

 

There would need to be a committee established to draw up the boundaries for private schools. Publics boundaries are already determined by the state department of education and would seem to be applicable.

 

If Brossart just drew from rural Campbell County, I could see them being closed.

Depends on how big of a community that covers. I would look at realistic communities and not just diocese to make it fair across the board. I would assume that all of Jefferson County could not be considered a community to draw from anywhere.

 

My understanding is that Lex Catholic's diocese is from Pikeville to Frankfort, Berea to Georgetown. No way that can be considered closed when they can draw from probably close to 20 counties.

 

There would need to be a committee established to draw up the boundaries for private schools. Publics boundaries are already determined by the state department of education and would seem to be applicable.

 

If Brossart just drew from rural Campbell County, I could see them being closed.

 

Here's an issue that may also need to be looked at. A school that is closed in Jefferson Co, is going to have access to a larger potential population base, than a open Independent school in a smaller county. Is just going to open and closed going to be enough, if there is any type of split?

Here's an issue that may also need to be looked at. A school that is closed in Jefferson Co, is going to have access to a larger potential population base, than a open Independent school in a smaller county. Is just going to open and closed going to be enough, if there is any type of split?

 

As I mentioned if a school in Jefferson County could draw from ALL of Jefferson County, I would not consider them closed. They would have to be limited to the neighborhood they reside. If they draw outside of the neighborhood, they are open.

 

So, if Manual wanted to draw from all parts of Jefferson County that is great that they are willing to serve all of Jefferson County.:thumb:They have now chosen to compete in the open division. Butler chooses to ONLY draw from the neighborhood that they are in and they are closed division.