My HS coach always said, "the most important things that happen during a basketball game are the things that don't show up in the box score."

Wow!!! Well said, and this unselfish style of play that occurs when players aren't worried about "how many points did I score?" is amazing. Our team lost some talented players from last year to this year for various reasons, but the difference in the team because of the attitude toward team play this year vs last is amazing. Sooooo true that often what makes a difference in the games does not often show up in the box scores.:dancingpa

The most important skill in the game of basketball is shooting. I think too many coaches spend too much time on x's and o's instead of working on shooting. Many players today worry too much about whether or not they are making shots. As everyone has said, too much is made out of who the top scorer is by the media. A complete player will have good stats across the board, not just in the scoring column. Players who make others around them better are my favorites.

The most important skill in the game of basketball is shooting. I think too many coaches spend too much time on x's and o's instead of working on shooting. Many players today worry too much about whether or not they are making shots. As everyone has said, too much is made out of who the top scorer is by the media. A complete player will have good stats across the board, not just in the scoring column. Players who make others around them better are my favorites.

 

Players can shoot today.

 

They just cannot shoot in games. Because they don't practice game situation shots.

 

While practicing shots, it is important that you a) are practicing shots they are actually going to be taking in a game; b) have them moving at game speed.

 

Doesn't do a bit of good to practice shooting off the dribble at 1/2 speed when you will be going 3/4 or full speed in a game.

 

You will play like you practice.

Players can shoot today.

 

They just cannot shoot in games. Because they don't practice game situation shots.

 

While practicing shots, it is important that you a) are practicing shots they are actually going to be taking in a game; b) have them moving at game speed.

 

Doesn't do a bit of good to practice shooting off the dribble at 1/2 speed when you will be going 3/4 or full speed in a game.

 

You will play like you practice.

 

Absolutely correct and a great post!

What a great thread! To add another angle, we all seem to agree that an all around game is key, and the stats kept are what are used to critique a player. Rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, TO. Points & shots are easy to count. What about consistency in the other stats? My own personal experience over the years is that those stats can be completely inaccurate in a lot of situations. The actual definition of an assist, who to give the TO to, the passer or the catcher...situational stuff, judgement calls to whoever may be keeping those stats. But who are those people? Students in some cases. Assistant coaches maybe. Parents? Relatives? How neutral is that? How many assists are missed when a parent or relative is keeping stats & the person on the receiving end of the assist is the related person & they miss the assist because they are thinking of the shot their own player made, a little internal celebration? I am not saying this is anyone's fault or suggesting that folks deliberately "fudge", I am just saying that there is a problem in the stat area because of the nature of the system. An area, not just points, that we judge a players performance on...they are just not accurate in a lot of cases because, let's face it, those folks keeping them may not really have a complete understanding of what they are keeping track of. I know I don't most of the time! :jump:

We had volunteers to track stats for game time.

 

After games my adrenaline was too high and I went home and rewatched the game tape twice. Once to scout what we were doing right and wrong and to make notes for our next matchup against that team.

 

The second time to redo the stats for season and career stats.

We had volunteers to track stats for game time.

 

After games my adrenaline was too high and I went home and rewatched the game tape twice. Once to scout what we were doing right and wrong and to make notes for our next matchup against that team.

 

The second time to redo the stats for season and career stats.

 

So in your case, you redo the stats. Excellent! Do you think that is true for most coaches? And in your case, how inaccurate did you find the original stats from the volunteers to your redone stats?

24Smom- I would have to agree with you on the stats- it is interpreted differently even by coaches on the same team let alone a parent volunteer or a student. There is some "fudging" that goes on, I am sure, but in the end when it comes down to it, a college coach will make that call for themsleves and they will be judged by their overall play and contributions to the game not just the statline!

 

The things that you cannot measure on the stat sheet that are equally important: attitude, commitment, desisre, work ethic- how can you evaluate that? College coaches are looking for all that as well and there is no stat line for that!

24Smom- I would have to agree with you on the stats- it is interpreted differently even by coaches on the same team let alone a parent volunteer or a student. There is some "fudging" that goes on, I am sure, but in the end when it comes down to it, a college coach will make that call for themsleves and they will be judged by their overall play and contributions to the game not just the statline!

 

The things that you cannot measure on the stat sheet that are equally important: attitude, commitment, desisre, work ethic- how can you evaluate that? College coaches are looking for all that as well and there is no stat line for that!

 

:thumb: Agreed...but what draws a college coach's attention to begin with? Is it the statline?

This is a very well thought out thread with a lot of useful and heartfelt responses. I attend and cover a lot of both girls and boys game on my website. Most of the time I follow the game and keep points as well as rebounds for key players as well as check my points against the official book at the end of the game. However this just paints part of the pictures and I am overjoyed when the teams use the computer stats program. Several years ago Sarah Shell played for LexCath and I always teased her about the "Sarah Shell stats line" which for example would be 12 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 blocked shots, and 7 steals. In other words a complete game and a well rounded performance. We are all obsessed with scoring because often that is the only stat we see. Another term that is misused is "athleticism" and while it is a great asset often players who possess it still doesn't realize that fundamentals and putting the ball in the basket still wins the games. You really can't blame the players as all that we see on the highlight shows are the spectacular plays.

24Smom- I would have to say there are a few things- height is huge (pardon my pun there) along with scoring, and lastly, the team they play on as it relates to competiiton. You can have fantastic stats but not be on a very good team and that probably won't help you too much. Defense is also a factor, however, at the high school level, most girls are not taught defense(help, rotating with the ball,etc.) like they are in the college game so although they might not be as good at defense, it is something that can be taught more easily than to be a great shooter. IMO man to man defense is a great way to evaluate a persons ability to be a good defender and will tell you a lot about that player.

 

With all that being said, coaches ask other coaches who are the best players or who do you need to stop to beat them. It doesn't take a college coach who is scouting a game very long to figure out if a player is what they are looking for. The stats get them noticed or too the game, but their play gets them the scholarship.

 

Also, I have to agree with REH5- athleticism is over-stated. It drives me nuts when I will see extremely athletic players get to the rim but cannot finish because they are out of control or are attempting some half-funky crazy move- it doesn't serve them well. It may in high school but when they get to the college level it becomes much more difficult to get away with that.

 

Athleticism is important, don't get me wrong, but it should not the biggest consideration and I believe that it can be, especially for NCAA D1.

 

No magic answers here, I just think that so much of todays game is on the flashy stuff- when we really should be looking at the fundamental skills, their willingness to be coached, and their abilitity to get better every year.

24Smom- I would have to say there are a few things- height is huge (pardon my pun there) along with scoring, and lastly, the team they play on as it relates to competiiton. You can have fantastic stats but not be on a very good team and that probably won't help you too much. Defense is also a factor, however, at the high school level, most girls are not taught defense(help, rotating with the ball,etc.) like they are in the college game so although they might not be as good at defense, it is something that can be taught more easily than to be a great shooter. IMO man to man defense is a great way to evaluate a persons ability to be a good defender and will tell you a lot about that player.

 

With all that being said, coaches ask other coaches who are the best players or who do you need to stop to beat them. It doesn't take a college coach who is scouting a game very long to figure out if a player is what they are looking for. The stats get them noticed or too the game, but their play gets them the scholarship.

 

Also, I have to agree with REH5- athleticism is over-stated. It drives me nuts when I will see extremely athletic players get to the rim but cannot finish because they are out of control or are attempting some half-funky crazy move- it doesn't serve them well. It may in high school but when they get to the college level it becomes much more difficult to get away with that.

 

Athleticism is important, don't get me wrong, but it should not the biggest consideration and I believe that it can be, especially for NCAA D1.

 

No magic answers here, I just think that so much of todays game is on the flashy stuff- when we really should be looking at the fundamental skills, their willingness to be coached, and their abilitity to get better every year.

Great post.My parents reward me for assists more than points.Seems like college basketball is more flash than basketball skill and it looks as though a lot of walks are not called in college ball so the player can look good doing a move that should not be attempted anyway.

One of my coaches used a 'production' stat. Add up positives: example: 2 steals, plus 4 rebounds; plus 1 deflection; plus 1 charge taken; plus 3 assists; plus 10 points...subtract negatives: -3 turnovers; then divide the total number of minutes played by that number. This example would equal a production number of 1.11 if we assume 20 minutes on the court. The number is only useful in it's relevance to the others and/or the team benchmarks etc.

 

It doesn't matter what stats you want to use, just be consistent. You want to emphasize something in your program, put it in there. If a kid doesn't score, they can still have a great production number by getting a ton of rebounds, assists, deflections, and not turning the ball over...and, it levels the measurement to a Per Minutes Played format, not just totals.

 

It's an easy way to measure and compare easily what a player contributes.

If you have a kid who does all the 'intangible' things, whatever you say those are (obviously, I'm assuming there's no attitude problem or whatever)...and no one is out performing them or is equal, then I guess it is the coach's call. But if I'm on the bench with a higher production number and my coach tells me that the other girl plays because she does all the "intangibles"...that makes no sense? If it doesn't produce a result, who cares what it is...(best hair, I went to school with her dad?) It can't be that subjective or kids lose trust and motivation to compete with one another. There's a score book, stat sheets, and a score board...measure what you want, but kids need to produce something to 'earn' time on the floor. BTW, read any of your most notable coaches' philosophies, none of them will substitute "intangible" for "production"!

One of my coaches used a 'production' stat. Add up positives: example: 2 steals, plus 4 rebounds; plus 1 deflection; plus 1 charge taken; plus 3 assists; plus 10 points...subtract negatives: -3 turnovers; then divide the total number of minutes played by that number. This example would equal a production number of 1.11 if we assume 20 minutes on the court. The number is only useful in it's relevance to the others and/or the team benchmarks etc.

 

It doesn't matter what stats you want to use, just be consistent. You want to emphasize something in your program, put it in there. If a kid doesn't score, they can still have a great production number by getting a ton of rebounds, assists, deflections, and not turning the ball over...and, it levels the measurement to a Per Minutes Played format, not just totals.

 

It's an easy way to measure and compare easily what a player contributes.

If you have a kid who does all the 'intangible' things, whatever you say those are (obviously, I'm assuming there's no attitude problem or whatever)...and no one is out performing them or is equal, then I guess it is the coach's call. But if I'm on the bench with a higher production number and my coach tells me that the other girl plays because she does all the "intangibles"...that makes no sense? If it doesn't produce a result, who cares what it is...(best hair, I went to school with her dad?) It can't be that subjective or kids lose trust and motivation to compete with one another. There's a score book, stat sheets, and a score board...measure what you want, but kids need to produce something to 'earn' time on the floor. BTW, read any of your most notable coaches' philosophies, none of them will substitute "intangible" for "production"!

 

Excellent observation !!