November 3, 200718 yr Show me that a human cannot make a mistake, and I will be for the death penalty. Until then, I will let God decide when people exit this earth. According to my Bible, God has already had something to say about the subject. I count at least six times in the following passage that God instructs Moses to have convicted murderers put to death. Numbers 35:9-34 9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come over Jordan into the land of Canaan; 11 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares. 12 And they shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger; that the manslayer die not, until he stand before the congregation in judgment. 13 And of these cities which ye shall give six cities shall ye have for refuge. 14 Ye shall give three cities on this side Jordan, and three cities shall ye give in the land of Canaan, which shall be cities of refuge. 15 These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither. 16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18 Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19 The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him. 20 But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die; 21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him. 22 But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait, 23 Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm: 24 Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments: 25 And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil. 26 But if the slayer shall at any time come without the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled; 27 And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood: 28 Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession. 29 So these things shall be for a statute of judgment unto you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 30 Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die. 31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death. 32 And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest. 33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it. 34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.
November 3, 200718 yr Author You cant pick and choose what Mosaic Laws to follow, if you are going to follow that one. Then you shouldnt be eating shellfish, because that is considered unclean by Mosaic Law.
November 3, 200718 yr The answer to this question is yes. With that I am 100% pro-life...and used to 100% for capital punishment. My stance has softened on that as I grow older. I don't think that I could justify killing another human being right now.
November 3, 200718 yr Death [deth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism. Tell me again how being for the death penalty is consistent with being "pro-life," when by its nature and definition, death entails the cessation of life?
November 3, 200718 yr Your source is an anti-death penalty organization. None of the 124 listed in the first article were executed. That is rather significant, don't you think? The eight executed in the second article were sentenced to death, on the average, 12.5 years before the executions took place. The article suggests that there is strong evidence of their innocence. That is rather hard to believe since there was more than ample time (12.5 years in addition to the original investigation and trial) to submit this "strong evidence". Your source is an advocate for one point of view rather than a source reporting facts. Very weak if this is the best you can offer. By the way, I chose not to make the requested donation to the cause. I concur, Kingfish. I also kept a close watch on my checkbook. I have other more beneficial places where I can donate my hard earned money--not the least of which is a local crisis pregnancy center that explains to girls their options and tells them the truth about abortion.
November 3, 200718 yr Death [deth] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism. Tell me again how being for the death penalty is consistent with being "pro-life," when by its nature and definition, death entails the cessation of life? See post #7.
November 3, 200718 yr Yes you can. Pro-life for the innocent unborn, Pro death penalty for vicious murderers. There are innocent people serving life terms in prison right now, I guarantee it. Is that any more fair? Mistakes can be made, and that is sad, but that doesn't mean we should keep cold blooded murderers alive. :thumb:I have read and agree w/ all posts made by RTS in this thread. With all the automatic appeals that death row inmates get, it would be almost impossible in this day and age to execute an innocent person. Could it happen? I guess it could. But I'm willing to go w/ the odds and say by the time it comes to inserting the needle, the accused person's guilt has been proven time and again. Abortion is taking a life that hasn't had a chance to live. The Bible says we will be known in heaven as we were here on Earth. Imagine a mother who was saved later in life coming face to face w/ the child she aborted early in life. I can only imagine the shame. But, that's what is great about God. No matter what we do, he will still forgive and welcome us in to his house if we ask for his forgiveness in earnest.
November 4, 200718 yr Question King Fish: Are you ok executing 10 killers, and 1 of those ten being innocent. I don't answer hypothetical questions that are not remotely based upon the facts. Are you implying that only 90% of those executed are really guilty? that is not factual by any stretch of the imagination. And as for yuour cited articles, I would point out that the mere fact that some were later not retried or acquitted does not mean that they were innocent of the crime. Please keep in mind that juries find the accused either "guilty" or "not guilty". Finding the latter is not finding the accused innocent. It merely says that, from the evidence presented, we cannot find the defendant guilty. There is an enormous difference. Being rather familiar with criminal law and criminal procedure, i would conclude that most, probably nearly all, on your list were really guilty. However, their conviction was overturned on some technicality and either thye prosecution felt it could not prove its case on retrial beyond a reasonable doubt or they chose not to retry the case. All this is a part of the mix that the authors of your articles would conveniently leave out.
November 4, 200718 yr If you believe that abortion is wrong(as I do) AND believe that it should be a punishable crime (I don't) and you equate it to murder, are you then saying that a person who has an abortion should be punished like one who commits murder? This was the point I was trying to make in Post #15... not that I take this position, but that it's something for the hard liners to think about.
November 4, 200718 yr This was the point I was trying to make in Post #15... not that I take this position, but that it's something for the hard liners to think about. The Texas law that was declared unconstitutional in Roe v Wade dealt with punishment for the doctor who performed the abortion. If the issue of abortion were returned to the states (after all, overturning Roe v Wade would only make abortion a state's rights issue and would not "outlaw" abortions), it would be up to each state to codify how it would treat the procedure. Legal? Prosecute the doctor? Prosecute the woman (surely, we won't call her a mother)? That wouild be left to each state. For states in which abortion would be deemed a crime, the proper punishment would be a part of the law. It could be serious or it could be lenient. Regardless, many states (mainly the "blue" ones) would make abortion legal so the party wanting to rid herself of her baby could just go to one of them for her "procedure". Of course Norma McCorvey (Roe) could have done the same thing rather than joining up with all the pro-abortion groups.
November 4, 200718 yr This was the point I was trying to make in Post #15... not that I take this position, but that it's something for the hard liners to think about. I'm a bit surprised and disappointed to the lack of responses to my question. I would think that those who proclaim that it should be illegal would jump all over this one. Maybe I should ask again: If you believe that abortion is wrong(as I do) AND believe that it should be a punishable crime (I don't) and you equate it to murder, are you then saying that a person who has an abortion should be punished like one who commits murder?
November 4, 200718 yr I find it hard to believe that there are folks who truly believe that innocent people have NEVER been executed.
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