And the source where "pro-lifers" get their 3,500 abortions performed every day and other eye-popping terms that seem pulled out of thin air I'm sure are from an anti-abortion organization. So where does that leave us? Are both questionable?

 

Your argument is without any merit. Allegedly, abortions must be documented by the "performers". So, there is obviously a record of the abortions that they report. Of course, those that are not reported merely increase the numbers. The information comes from pro-abortionists (public health information) and not from anti-abortionists.

 

As for the innocent person in this country who is executed, that individual is about as rare as a snow storm in Corbin in July. If not, name a few.

 

Intellectually, being opposed to both practices is consnstent, being in favor of both practices is consistent, and being for capital punishment and against abortion is consistent. However, opposing capital punishment and supporting abortion is an intellectual (and legal) fraud.

I would be happy to see "anti-abortion" substituted for "pro-life." Would you be happy if the media consistently referred to people who advocate abortion rights to be identified as "pro-abortion?" Why do you think that the pro-abortion crowd chose to refer to themselves as "pro-choice?" Might the reason have been to avoid conjuring up the horrific bloody mental images that accompany the word and practice of abortion?

 

Yes

Yes

Probably

So you oppose abortion as well? What is your opinion on euthanasia?

 

Without due process and the presence of equal protection, I would obviously oppose it. If I insert religious truths and considerations, my opposition must be even more vehement.

Your argument is without any merit. Allegedly, abortions must be documented by the "performers". So, there is obviously a record of the abortions that they report. Of course, those that are not reported merely increase the numbers. The information comes from pro-abortionists (public health information) and not from anti-abortionists.

 

I disagree that it is without merit. I hear these numbers seemingly drawn out of thin air and never see any documentation on them. Where is it?

 

And a field/profession that is looked upon by the majority of the country as underground/outlaw in nature, you're telling me their records are going to be 100 percent spot-on? Not buying it.

 

As for the innocent person in this country who is executed, that individual is about as rare as a snow storm in Corbin in July. If not, name a few.

 

I don't think anybody can really say that with any assurance. You might assume you're right, but neither you or me really know.

 

Intellectually, being opposed to both practices is consnstent, being in favor of both practices is consistent, and being for capital punishment and against abortion is consistent. However, opposing capital punishment and supporting abortion is an intellectual (and legal) fraud.

 

I don't buy this. Death is death and life is life. If you support the death penalty, you are supporting the end of life. You can't change the meaning of words out of convenience.

Big difference between the two, Jim, is choice.

 

The adult had a choice and made it. Consequences is death. They knew that going in.

 

The child had zero choice in the matter.

 

We here over and over and over on here about letting adults make their own choices. The adults on death row made their choice.

 

The person who had sex and ended up getting pregnant made their choice.

 

What is wrong with having to live with your choices instead of having another person's life have to end because of it?

 

I do firmly believe that any Roe v Wade overturn needs to come with legislation to shore up child health care, kids in poverty, adoption programs, education programs in the schools, etc, etc.

Then please define the term "many," the way you see it. Given its status as a subjective term, kind of hard to put a number on it. Sort of like "a lot."

 

How about this then. Show me ANY PROOF that an innocent person has been executed since the age of appeals began. I'm willing to condede the Salem Witch Trials and Old West Hanging judges and I'll even concede one of the people executed for the murder of Abraham Lincoln but I have yet to see any proof that an innocent person has been executed since the exhaustive appeal process has begun.

Without due process and the presence of equal protection, I would obviously oppose it. If I insert religious truths and considerations, my opposition must be even more vehement.

 

 

Actually my question was intended for the person who started this thread after he? made the statement that only God should decide when someone's life ends.

Big difference between the two, Jim, is choice.

 

The adult had a choice and made it. Consequences is death. They knew that going in.

 

The child had zero choice in the matter.

 

We here over and over and over on here about letting adults make their own choices. The adults on death row made their choice.

 

The person who had sex and ended up getting pregnant made their choice.

 

What is wrong with having to live with your choices instead of having another person's life have to end because of it?

 

I do firmly believe that any Roe v Wade overturn needs to come with legislation to shore up child health care, kids in poverty, adoption programs, education programs in the schools, etc, etc.

 

None of this has anything to do with the fact that "pro-lifers" have changed the meaning of the word "life" to suit their needs. "Death" means the "absence of life;" and vice-versa, "life" means the "absence of death."

 

I don't understand why you conservative-types, who tend to choose to see the world in absolutes, choose to contradict yourselves in this matter.

How about this then. Show me ANY PROOF that an innocent person has been executed since the age of appeals began. I'm willing to condede the Salem Witch Trials and Old West Hanging judges and I'll even concede one of the people executed for the murder of Abraham Lincoln but I have yet to see any proof that an innocent person has been executed since the exhaustive appeal process has begun.

 

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

And the source where "pro-lifers" get their 3,500 abortions performed every day and other eye-popping terms that seem pulled out of thin air I'm sure are from an anti-abortion organization. So where does that leave us? Are both questionable?

With very little effort, I found the following website of a multi-faith organization that publishes the following Statement of Belief:

 

We are a multi-faith group. As of 2007-AUG, we consist of one Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Wiccan and Zen Buddhist. Thus, the OCRT staff lack agreement on almost all theological matters: belief in a supreme being, the nature of God, interpretation of the Bible and other holy texts, whether life after death exists and what form it takes, etc.

 

Not my personal cup of tea, but this should certainly dismiss any notions of a fundamentalist conspiracy to sensationally inflate actual numbers.

 

This page on their site lists CDC statistics for legally reported abortions in the U.S. Check it out for yourself.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_decr.htm

 

Over a 31 year period from 1973 through 2003, the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta reported 35,552,029 “legally” performed and reported abortions. This does not include the fact that some states occasionally withhold data from the CDC; which artificially reduces the total of reported abortions. Nor does it include illegal abortions which are believed to be on the increase as more states require underage women to inform or gain consent from a parent or guardian before they can obtain a legal abortion. Nor does it include the number of abortions performed outside the U.S. to American women, or performed in the U.S. to foreign women. The point is, the numbers reported are the minimum known to occur in the U.S.

 

35,552,029 divided by 31 equals an annual average of 1,146,839.65, which divided again by 365 yields an average of 3,142 fetuses aborted daily.

 

At its peak in 1990, 1,429,247 abortions were reported... that's an average of 3,916 per day.

 

Over a 20 year period from 1978 through 1997, 26,090,865 abortions were reported. That's an average of 3,574 per day.

 

SUMMARY:

 

Kingfish is not off base with his claim of 3,500 per day.

I don't buy this. Death is death and life is life. If you support the death penalty, you are supporting the end of life. You can't change the meaning of words out of convenience.

 

:thumb: I know you are not Pro-Life (well I guess technically you are as Pro-Life as those anti-abortion people on this board since you are anti-death penalty) but you are correct on this one.

 

Big difference between the two, Jim, is choice.

You can't pick and choose who gets to live, and you can't rationalize it by saying which "set of choices" have lost their right to live. That sounds like Judgement Day, and is more of playing God than a doctor killing an unborn child.

 

You can't support both and call yourself Pro-Life. To me, the only time the death penalty is necessary is when someone continues to kill even if they are, say, locked up 24 hours a day with no visitors.

 

Basically, capital punishment is only necessary when it is the ONLY means to protecting society, and with the resources that the U.S. has, that situation is very rare.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

To be as objective as possible, I went to the Innocence Project site you linked. Here’s the absolutely distilled essence I found:

 

Since 1989—the time the first DNA exoneration took place— there have been 208 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States. Of these, 15 of the 208 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row.

 

While I agree that is is terribly unfortunate, if not unconscionable for an innocent person to serve time on death row, I could find nowhere on the site giving hard evidence of any innocent victim being wrongfully put to death for a crime he/she did not commit.

 

In that same 19 year window of time from 1989 through 2007, the CDC documents over 20 million legally performed abortions in the United States of America. That’s over ONE MILLION a YEAR… about THREE THOUSAND a DAY. It is logically, intellectually and spiritually impossible to get any more innocent as a human than a new born baby.

 

I find it monumentally mindboggling that some of you seem so concerned with the possibility of one innocent adult being wrongfully executed for a crime he did not commit, while turning a blind conscience to over 3,000 truly innocent children being killed every day in this nation.

 

Upon examining the facts, this argument is absurd to the extreme.

I disagree that it is without merit. I hear these numbers seemingly drawn out of thin air and never see any documentation on them. Where is it?

 

And a field/profession that is looked upon by the majority of the country as underground/outlaw in nature, you're telling me their records are going to be 100 percent spot-on? Not buying it.

 

 

 

I don't think anybody can really say that with any assurance. You might assume you're right, but neither you or me really know.

 

 

 

I don't buy this. Death is death and life is life. If you support the death penalty, you are supporting the end of life. You can't change the meaning of words out of convenience.

 

Your arguments are mishmash (I am being kind). It is common knowledge that records must be4 kept by abortion parlors of the number and nature of the abortions they perform. Those records, whether true or "adjusted" (and I suspect the latter) are a part of the public "health" record and are furnished to state and federal agencies. That means we have some record of the number of abortions performed. The figures are, if anything, low.

 

Your arguments comparing abortions and executions as if there are remotely parallel events intellectually and legally bankrupt. You apparently want to ignore the US Constitution and its guarantees. You choose to ignore medical evidence. You have no foundation for your position. You merely want to argue for the sake of arguing. I don't. I believe in protecting innocent life. That includes the preborn and the victims of criminals. Answering your posts is a waste of time. I'm done wasting time.

To be as objective as possible, I went to the Innocence Project site you linked. Here’s the absolutely distilled essence I found:

 

Since 1989—the time the first DNA exoneration took place— there have been 208 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States. Of these, 15 of the 208 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row.

 

While I agree that is is terribly unfortunate, if not unconscionable for an innocent person to serve time on death row, I could find nowhere on the site giving hard evidence of any innocent victim being wrongfully put to death for a crime he/she did not commit.

 

In that same 19 year window of time from 1989 through 2007, the CDC documents over 20 million legally performed abortions in the United States of America. That’s over ONE MILLION a YEAR… about THREE THOUSAND a DAY. It is logically, intellectually and spiritually impossible to get any more innocent as a human than a new born baby.

 

I find it monumentally mindboggling that some of you seem so concerned with the possibility of one innocent adult being wrongfully executed for a crime he did not commit, while turning a blind conscience to over 3,000 truly innocent children being killed every day in this nation.

 

Upon examining the facts, this argument is absurd to the extreme.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

According to Wikipedia:

 

"Since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976 there have been 1098 executions in the United States (as of September 24, 2007)."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

 

That’s an average of 34.3 per year or 2.86 per month.

 

During that same period, the CDC reports over 36.5 MILLION abortions. That’s an average of 1,141,183 per year or over 95 THOUSAND per MONTH.

 

That’s a ratio of 33,258.53 to 1.

 

Why such concern for one convicted killer and total disregard for over 33 THOUSAND innocent babies?

 

Je ne comprends pas véritablement…