Your arguments are mishmash (I am being kind). It is common knowledge that records must be4 kept by abortion parlors of the number and nature of the abortions they perform. Those records, whether true or "adjusted" (and I suspect the latter) are a part of the public "health" record and are furnished to state and federal agencies. That means we have some record of the number of abortions performed. The figures are, if anything, low.

 

Your arguments comparing abortions and executions as if there are remotely parallel events intellectually and legally bankrupt. You apparently want to ignore the US Constitution and its guarantees. You choose to ignore medical evidence. You have no foundation for your position. You merely want to argue for the sake of arguing. I don't. I believe in protecting innocent life. That includes the preborn and the victims of criminals. Answering your posts is a waste of time. I'm done wasting time.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way, but you and pretty much everyone else who has posted in this thread has completely, utterly missed the point of my argument.

 

The only comparison I'm making of executions and abortions is that the end result is the same: Death. You can't be for capital punishment and also honestly call yourself "pro-life." It's just that simple. Any other "evidence" you and any others have provided does absolutely nothing to change the fact that the term "pro-life" does not mean what people suggest it does.

According to Wikipedia:

 

"Since the reinstatement of the death penalty in 1976 there have been 1098 executions in the United States (as of September 24, 2007)."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States

 

That’s an average of 34.3 per year or 2.86 per month.

 

During that same period, the CDC reports over 36.5 MILLION abortions. That’s an average of 1,141,183 per year or over 95 THOUSAND per MONTH.

 

That’s a ratio of 33,258.53 to 1.

 

Why such concern for one convicted killer and total disregard for over 33 THOUSAND innocent babies?

 

Je ne comprends pas véritablement…

 

If those numbers are indeed true, then that is tragic.

 

And since most everyone who has not been around the board a while is unfamiliar with my odd position w/re to abortion and the death penalty, so here it is before some folks mistakenly position me in a camp I don't belong:

 

Abortion: Don't care for it at all. Probably only would accept it in the case of a rape or if the pregnancy threatens the mother's life. But it's not an issue I even consider when ducking into the voting booth, and I hate that it has become that issue for most of the rest of the country.

 

Death Penalty: I'm not opposed to it, but there should be a moratorium until reasonable reform takes place. I just don't trust the justice system to do it right, if left to its own devices. I don't like the idea that the population of America's death row is overwhelmingly black, brown or poor (to borrow a line from Steve Earle), and too many wealthy people are able to rig the system and get off for their crimes because of their wealth.

 

Bottom line: For good or ill, my past experiences have shown that, while precious, life is also cheap. I'm also of the opinion that the world is grossly overpopulated, and while I'm sure this is a harsh view to many (there's that word again!), some culling of the herd ain't a bad thing when you consider how our natural resources are being stretched to the limit.

Show me that a human cannot make a mistake, and I will be for the death penalty. Until then, I will let God decide when people exit this earth.

 

 

If a police officer is involved in a shootout with a dangerous felon should he shoot back or should he pray he gets struck by lightning? And if he does shoot back and kills him is he justified in doing so?

You cant pick and choose what Mosaic Laws to follow, if you are going to follow that one. Then you shouldnt be eating shellfish, because that is considered unclean by Mosaic Law.

The Mosaic law ended on the Cross.

I find it monumentally mindboggling that some of you seem so concerned with the possibility of one innocent adult being wrongfully executed for a crime he did not commit, while turning a blind conscience to over 3,000 truly innocent children being killed every day in this nation.

 

Upon examining the facts, this argument is absurd to the extreme.

 

So, if Mrs. Fastbreak or Child Fastbreak were false accused and ultimately put to death, you'd be OK with that? is there some magic number that has to happen before its a problem? 10? 1000?

There is not a scintilla of a chance that such a law would be considered in this day and age. If abortion were made a crime in Kentucky, it would be a much lesser charge- probably a Class D Felony or a Class C Felony at the worst- and the charge would be against the doctor and not the woman.

 

Personally, though it would never happen, I would support a law charging the doctor who performed the abortion (murdered the child) with murder. Again, the doctor would have advance notice that, if he performed the abortion, he would face a murder charge. We would not be dealing with a ex post facto law. It sounds reasonable to me.

 

 

 

As for the woman, her degree of involvement in the abortion would dictate how she is handled by the legal system. However, she is certainly not an innocent party and should be charged with being an accessory to the murder or something of that sort. Again, like the doctor, she has advance notice of the consenquences of her act and has been forewarned. I would certainly vote to have her held accountable.

 

In murder cases, my allegience is always with the victim. Not with the perpetrator(s). I find no real difference here.

 

If the woman wants freedom of choice, let her then choose to conduct her affairs so as not to become pregnant. Once she chooses to allow herself to become pregnant, there is an innocent party in the picture and she should lose her freedom of choice.

 

As I have stated before, my position on abortion, as well as on capital punishment, has nothing to do with religious considerations.

 

I appreciate your response. I hope the others on here who think abortion should be a crime will step up with an answer as well.

The Mosaic law ended on the Cross.

 

That's my personal view of it.

So, if Mrs. Fastbreak or Child Fastbreak were false accused and ultimately put to death, you'd be OK with that? is there some magic number that has to happen before its a problem? 10? 1000?

We're red lining the Absurd-o-meter here... :lol:

 

According to the evidence presented, you're dealing in what ifs, whereas I've presented facts.

 

Even so, I'll play along.

 

To answer your first question, "Of course not." But in all honesty, I have to wonder how my wife or children would ever be in a situation where this would be even a remote possibility.

 

To answer your second question, "Ummm, I dunno… how about maybe… one?"

 

I checked out Jim Schue's link to an "anti-death penalty, free the wrongfully accused" website. I would expect a group like this to factor in every possible contingency... even those cases that might be borderline but support the cause they are forwarding. I did not question their numbers. I didn't suggest they were inflating them. I accepted them as presented. To review:

Since 1989—the time the first DNA exoneration took place— there have been 208 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States. Of these, 15 of the 208 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row.

That’s 15 people doing time on death row, exonerated for the crime they were wrongfully accused of committing over a 19 year period. That’s less than one a year.

 

It says nothing on the entire site about one innocent person being wrongfully executed from 1989 to the present. I would think that if wrongfully executing innocent people were a fraction of the problem you seem to think it is, the Innocence Project would feature their stories on their website. That would be something they could really hang their hat on.

 

On the other hand, I have provided evidence that according to CDC statistics 35,552,029 children were killed between 1973 and 2003. That’s an annual average of 1,146,839.65, or 3,142 daily.

 

That's a tragedy the proportions of a 9/11 event happening to unborn children every single day of every year for 35 years. I honestly don't know how any of us are able to sleep at night.

FB - are you telling me that you TRULY believe that an innocent person has NEVER been executed?

 

Secondly, why do the number of abortions factor into the issue of the fairness of the DP when we all KNOW (well, maybe not you) that innocent people HAVE been put to death?

I know that I am jumping in late here and putting a spin on the current argument, but my issue with some pro-life supporters stems from their willingness to make pregnancies that are the result of rape an exception. How is the child that is a victim of rape not worthy of life? That child is just as innocent as ones that were conceived as the product of a loving relationship.

 

Can anyone give me a rational reason for this?

FB - are you telling me that you TRULY believe that an innocent person has NEVER been executed?

 

Secondly, why do the number of abortions factor into the issue of the fairness of the DP when we all KNOW (well, maybe not you) that innocent people HAVE been put to death?

In no way have I suggested that innocent people have never been wrongfully executed... merely that you nor anyone else has been able to document even one such event in the U.S. over the past 20 years. If the statistics revealed so far are correct, it appears to me that you are fighting a battle that has essentially been won already.

 

Why?

 

I have confirmed that 3,142 innocent people have been put to death every single day over the past 35 years, and there is no end in sight. This is relevant since you seem so concerned for the welfare of the innocent. It would seem to me that truly compassionate individuals would make every effort to end this tragic cycle.

In no way have I suggested that innocent people have never been wrongfully executed... merely that you nor anyone else has been able to document even one such event in the U.S. over the past 20 years. If the statistics revealed so far are correct, it appears to me that you are fighting a battle that has essentially been won already.

 

Why?

 

I have confirmed that 3,142 innocent people have been put to death every single day over the past 35 years, and there is no end in sight. This is relevant since you seem so concerned for the welfare of the innocent. It would seem to me that truly compassionate individuals would make every effort to end this tragic cycle.

 

So you can't be truly compassionate if you're anti-DP?

FB: You have conveniently overlooked the fact that the Web site I cited is only interested in living folks. Not much of a victory getting a dead person off death row.

In no way have I suggested that innocent people have never been wrongfully executed... merely that you nor anyone else has been able to document even one such event in the U.S. over the past 20 years. If the statistics revealed so far are correct, it appears to me that you are fighting a battle that has essentially been won already.

 

Why?

 

I have confirmed that 3,142 innocent people have been put to death every single day over the past 35 years, and there is no end in sight. This is relevant since you seem so concerned for the welfare of the innocent. It would seem to me that truly compassionate individuals would make every effort to end this tragic cycle.

 

Maybe this helps? Again, it's kind of pointless worrying about innocent folks who have already been put down. Better to worry about those who still can put a face to the statistic, the way the Innocence Mission folks do.

I know that I am jumping in late here and putting a spin on the current argument, but my issue with some pro-life supporters stems from their willingness to make pregnancies that are the result of rape an exception. How is the child that is a victim of rape not worthy of life? That child is just as innocent as ones that were conceived as the product of a loving relationship.

 

Can anyone give me a rational reason for this?

 

I'm pro-life, and don't agree with that as an exception at all. The only time I would ever say an abortion is acceptable is when the mother's life is seriously jeopardized if she gives birth.