Not at all.

 

If you're putting Biggio in the HOF, then you are saying he's better than Lou Whitaker. What are you basing that on? Subjectivity? Numbers and adjustments remove as much subjectivity as possible so that you can get an idea of how Lou compared to Biggio using EQUAL measurements. How is that like weather forecasting?

 

Why would you not use equal measurements when you're deciding is a player was equal to or better than another?

Biggio's stats, are better that Whitaker and I'm a huge fan of his. I met Trammell and Whitaker, in Lakeland when they were rookies....liked them both and Detroit, ever since.

As I said before, the intangible for Biggs is his moving from position to position. That doesn't mean he was a better 2nd baseman. I'd bet you won't find hardly ANY people who follow the game say that Biggs is a better 2nd baseman that Sweet Lou.

 

Secondly, I don't have to go blind trying to normalize. Too many geeks out there have already performed that task.

 

So, Lou finished his career with 244 HRs and a little over 1,000 RBIs along with a .276 avg and .426 SLG.

 

However, taking into account the era vs today, his adjusted numbers are as follows:

 

HR 339

RBI 1237

AVG .289

SLG .479

 

Biggs is at 287 , 1160, .282, .434.

 

 

Add in the DEFINITIVE advantage with the glove at F4 and I'll take Lou.

 

 

Here's how the normalized numbers came about:

 

 

[ Return To Top ]

 

 

Converts the player's batting statistics into a context that is the same for everybody. The major characteristics of the translation are: 1) that the translated EQA should equal the original, all-time adjusted EQA (within some margin for error); 2) that all seasons are expanded to a 162 game schedule; 3) that the statistics are adjusted to a season where an average hitter would have, per 650 PA: 589 AB, 153 H, 31 DB, 3 TP, 19 HR, 56 BB, 5 HBP, 113 SO, 10 SB, 5 CS, 79 R and 75 RBI. His rates would be a .260 batting average, .330 onbase average, .420 slugging average, and a .260 EQA with 76 EQR.

 

Where's the definitive edge in the field? Biggio has 4 Gold Gloves to Whitaker's 3 and they have the exact same career fielding percentage.

Not at all.

 

If you're putting Biggio in the HOF, then you are saying he's better than Lou Whitaker. What are you basing that on? Subjectivity? Numbers and adjustments remove as much subjectivity as possible so that you can get an idea of how Lou compared to Biggio using EQUAL measurements. How is that like weather forecasting?

 

Why would you not use equal measurements when you're deciding is a player was equal to or better than another?

 

Brother, as you know, I'm old enough to remember Sweet Lou well and my opinion is that Biggio was the better player. I'm talking about if I had never seen a stat, just my eyes and gut feeling (if you will), I think Biggio is better.

 

The adjusted crap is useless. How about the fact that Lou played in a park that was about 285 down the right-field line and that the first half (or more) of Biggio's career was played in the Grand Canyon. Is that factored in? When you start fudging the numbers to try and make them even you add way too much room for human error -- again, flawed or otherwise, I'll judge the stats as they are. Trying to compare eras, in any sport, adjusted or not, is nearly impossible.

 

In my "opinion," having lived through both, I thought Biggio was a better player compared to his peers than Sweet Lou was compared to his.

I would argue Lou was better defensively, hit better , for more power, AND played for one team.

You wouldn't win the offensive side of that argument, not in Hits and production.

 

Whitaker was/is more smooth, than most 2B to ever play but I certainly don't see the power numbers. I believe Biggio, is top 10 all-time, in 2B's.

 

I would take either, if given a choice but in you're comparison, Biggio is better than Whitaker, in my opinion and the stats.

I would say without question a first ballot.

If I had a vote Biggio would get it.

I always enjoyed watching him play.

Ryno was around in the 90's as was Jeff Kent...

 

 

I mentioned Kent....Sandberg I remember, just didn't remember him when posting that. :thumb:

I'm still young, sort of, and even I scratched my head at that one.

 

 

I can cause one to do that sometimes.:lol:

1950 Games at Second Base

427 Games at Catcher

363 Games in the Outfield

20 Games at DH but no games at third base.

:thumb:

Where's the definitive edge in the field? Biggio has 4 Gold Gloves to Whitaker's 3 and they have the exact same career fielding percentage.

 

Without looking it up, I'm guessing the GG winner was often Bobby Grich who was very, very good. You cannot use it as a comparison IMO .

 

I'll repeat my belief that you will not find any baseball experts who think Biggio was a better 2nd baseman than Lou Whitaker.

He has been a GREAT team player, and a great player. He will have the most hit-by-pitches in history, talk about taking many for the team. 1st Ballot all the way.

Brother, as you know, I'm old enough to remember Sweet Lou well and my opinion is that Biggio was the better player. I'm talking about if I had never seen a stat, just my eyes and gut feeling (if you will), I think Biggio is better.

 

The adjusted crap is useless. How about the fact that Lou played in a park that was about 285 down the right-field line and that the first half (or more) of Biggio's career was played in the Grand Canyon. Is that factored in? When you start fudging the numbers to try and make them even you add way too much room for human error -- again, flawed or otherwise, I'll judge the stats as they are. Trying to compare eras, in any sport, adjusted or not, is nearly impossible.

 

In my "opinion," having lived through both, I thought Biggio was a better player compared to his peers than Sweet Lou was compared to his.

 

 

Compared to his peers is a different argument . The challenge is determining if he was as good or better as someone in or better than someone who is not in.

 

The problem with your "285 feet down the RF line" logic is that its already taken into account since the entire league played in the same ballparks that season/era.

 

So there is no fudging of factors. Maybe I've not done enough to educate you on what the measure takes into account but that doesn't discount it.

 

Lastly, you were born in 1970 or thereabouts so you'll forgive me if I question your ability to judge a player who started his career when you were 7 and played the majority of his career while you were skirt chasing as a young Colonel.

 

If I remember correctly, you had difficulty understanding the concept of the report that said black players were called for more fouls than whites when everything was made equal so I'll cut you some slack.

You wouldn't win the offensive side of that argument, not in Hits and production.

 

Whitaker was/is more smooth, than most 2B to ever play but I certainly don't see the power numbers. I believe Biggio, is top 10 all-time, in 2B's.

 

I would take either, if given a choice but in you're comparison, Biggio is better than Whitaker, in my opinion and the stats.

 

K3 - in order to believe that Biggio was better offensively, you have to discount the typical offensive production in a different era as I posted above.

 

He has better "stats" than Joe Morgan. You taking him over Morgan?

K3 - in order to believe that Biggio was better offensively, you have to discount the typical offensive production in a different era as I posted above.

 

He has better "stats" than Joe Morgan. You taking him over Morgan?

Keep in mind, that there are different levels of talent in the HOF....As you know, some have more accomplished statistics and others, have less but they are still, HOF and that alone makes them a part of the greatest professional players of all-time.

 

Now, from an offensive standpoint and based off my watching Morgan play....Biggio, Morgan, Dave Cash, Rennie Stennet, Jeff Kent, Ryne Sandberg, Bobby Grich, Willie Randolph, Lou Whitaker, Manny Trillio and many, many more....were all great 2B'men, with each have different qualities.

 

I could argue for days, over who I thought the best 2B'men of all-time is and if we asked 30, probably would get 20 names. I would take any of the names, I just listed on my team and I would be extremely pleased.

 

If you're making me choose Morgan or Biggio....Biggio and he hits 2nd for me.

If you're making me choose Morgan or Biggio....Biggio and he hits 2nd for me.

 

kdsoiehhdjoiw woos woodk m.ow 2.