I'm also, not a big stats guy but for the HOF, not sure the criteria, if not basing off stats.

 

Is Raffy Palmeiro an HOFer? Lets assume for the sake of argument that he was 100% clean.

Who had the better year in the following cases:

 

Ruth with 59 HRs in 1921 or McGwire with 71?

Yaz with a .301 avg in 1968 or Pinky Whitney .342 in 1930?

 

Those of you arguing for Biggio based on "stats" have to pick McGwire and ol' Pinky, right?

For those of you that are using the "computer geek" "stat geek" "on the field not a computer formula" "statistical noise" rhetoric, detail out to me all of the assumptions you have that are not taken into account.

Surely you see the fallacy in your argument.

 

So you've got Vinny Testaverde in front of Montana ? 5k more yards passing?

 

I've seen Montana play....Not during his prime, but have seen him.

Is Raffy Palmeiro an HOFer? Lets assume for the sake of argument that he was 100% clean.

I would say, Yes....I believe he has over 3,000 hits and something like 570 HR's....comparable numbers to HOF members.

 

You're wanting to equate eras and you can't presume, what would be done today, verse yesterday. If that's the argument, than all former players would be HOF'ers, in todays baseball climate. We can only measure against, what is accomplished.

 

Who had the better year in the following cases:

 

Ruth with 59 HRs in 1921 or McGwire with 71?

Yaz with a .301 avg in 1968 or Pinky Whitney .342 in 1930?

 

Those of you arguing for Biggio based on "stats" have to pick McGwire and ol' Pinky, right?

Even I, wasn't around in the '30's....No idea, who Pinky is or what he done. You're comparing players to eras and that can't be done.

I would say, Yes....I believe he has over 3,000 hits and something like 570 HR's....comparable numbers to HOF members.

 

You're wanting to equate eras and you can't presume, what would be done today, verse yesterday. If that's the argument, than all former players would be HOF'ers, in todays baseball climate. We can only measure against, what is accomplished.

 

Even I, wasn't around in the '30's....No idea, who Pinky is or what he done. You're comparing players to eras and that can't be done.

 

1. You can't say that stats matter when comparing Biggio and Whitaker and then say later that you can't compare players in different eras.

 

2. The HOF is built on comparing players from different eras. Every vote is a vote that is measured against current members of the HOF.

 

3. Why can't you compare eras? What would be missing?

I've seen Montana play....Not during his prime, but have seen him.

 

Are you a politician or something? What does the above mean in regards to the question I asked?

Who had the better year in the following cases:

 

Ruth with 59 HRs in 1921 or McGwire with 71?

Yaz with a .301 avg in 1968 or Pinky Whitney .342 in 1930?

 

Those of you arguing for Biggio based on "stats" have to pick McGwire and ol' Pinky, right?

 

Paging HSSRB. Mr. HSSRB please report.

Are you a politician or something? What does the above mean in regards to the question I asked?

 

 

Pretty simple really. I said I couldn't compare Morgan to Biggio in any way other than stats because I've never seen Morgan play. I've seen both Montana and Vinny play, and Testaverde was no where near the player Montana was, so I can compare the two in ways other than stats.

Pretty simple really. I said I couldn't compare Morgan to Biggio in any way other than stats because I've never seen Morgan play. I've seen both Montana and Vinny play, and Testaverde was no where near the player Montana was, so I can compare the two in ways other than stats.

 

I've seen both Morgan and Biggio play, and Biggio ain't even close. Heckuva lot closer to Morgan than Testeverde is to Montana, but Morgan was probably among the top five players of his era, and the sparkplug for one of the greatest teams of all time.

I've seen both Morgan and Biggio play, and Biggio ain't even close. Heckuva lot closer to Morgan than Testeverde is to Montana, but Morgan was probably among the top five players of his era, and the sparkplug for one of the greatest teams of all time.

 

 

He may very well be, but I can't make a comparison outside of stats when I haven't seen both players.

Pretty simple really. I said I couldn't compare Morgan to Biggio in any way other than stats because I've never seen Morgan play. I've seen both Montana and Vinny play, and Testaverde was no where near the player Montana was, so I can compare the two in ways other than stats.

 

Gotcha. I can buy that.

1. You can't say that stats matter when comparing Biggio and Whitaker and then say later that you can't compare players in different eras.

 

2. The HOF is built on comparing players from different eras. Every vote is a vote that is measured against current members of the HOF.

 

3. Why can't you compare eras? What would be missing?

Whitaker and Biggio, started 11 years apart....I hardly consider that an era.

Great debate by the way... :thumb:

Surely you see the fallacy in your argument.

 

So you've got Vinny Testaverde in front of Montana ? 5k more yards passing?

 

No, Testaverde did that in 35 more games and its only one stat. Whitaker walked more and struck out less than Biggio but except for triples he pretty much dominates Whitaker across the board. Sure Testaverde threw for almost 5,000 yards more than Montana in 35 more games. He also completed 56.6% of his passes compared to Montana's 63.2%, he threw 270 TDs compared to Montana's 273 and threw 261 more interceptions to Montana's 139. Comparing Testaverde/Montana because of one stat is not a good comparison at all.