The way I have always seen it, we kill the top 50 "evil-doers" or whomever we are after, we kill a few other terrorists along the way. That's great, but what about their kids, what about their family. Not to mention all the young kids that grow up in violence, get told how evil America is and then they see America kill their father or their friends.

 

It's a cycle that has been going on over there for years and years even without our help. Now that we are waist deep in it, we think we are going to change things in the middle east.

 

 

What's your option for handling the situation?

What's your option for handling the situation?

 

That's the problem, it's a double edged sword no matter what we do. You hate to see dictators like Saddam and what he did to his people. Not to mention just the violence that goes on everyday over there. You can't sit back and do nothing with all the resources we have.

 

HOWEVER, handling things the way we did wasn't the right way to go. We tried sanctions, we tried doing things the "right way" and it didn't work. Saddam needed to go, I just don't like how we went about it.

 

There is no way that once we leave that things will be fine, there is always going to be chaos in the middle east.

 

The only thing left for us to do is set up as much of an internal system as we can and leave. If we are staying around to make sure it's 100 percent perfect, we will be in a war over there that will never end.

I feel like it is an ideological war, one waged between minds, not something we are going to win with firepower.

Racial hatred and killings happen in the US. The killings are not as frequent as the car bombings that we are now seeing in Iraq (though they were in our not so ancient past), since we are there, but to say that it is comparing "apples to car bombs" might be a slap in the face to families in our own country that have lost a loved one in a racially motivated killing.

 

Do we not consider the hatred that some Middle Easterners have for Americans a type of prejudice? How are the two so different?

 

My "apples to car bombs" statement was made to illustrate that prejudice and intolerence in the U.S. generally doesn't rise to the same level of violence that we see in other countries throughout the world, although as I said in a previous post, I do realize that our nation has had its own problems in the past.

 

I agree with you that the hatred that some Middle Easterners have for Americans is a predudice. However, the difference is that the level of violence that stems from hatred/intolerence within our own country pales in comparison to the violence in the regions I referred to in my previous posts.

 

If a Protestant marries a Catholic in the U.S., the families may moan and groan a little, shake their heads, and get over it. If a Sunni or Shiite wants to marry a Kurd in the Middle East, the woman gets stoned to death (as was recently covered in the news).

 

We live in the most multicultural country on the face of the earth. I would argue that we are the most multicultural nation that has ever existed. Prejudice and intolerence in a nation as diverse as ours is inevitable. I would further argue that the intolerence/prejudice experienced within our country (as it exists presently) is but a mere nuisance compared to that experienced in so many other countries throughout the world. I am not trying to trivialize the problems within our country, but rather am merely comparing our problems to those in other nations.

Here is how I intended it to be taken:

 

1. It is terrible to show killing in a cartoon video format aimed at 3-4 yros.

2. It is terrible to teach children to hate people or groups of people.

Heck, cartoons aimed at 3-4 yr olds don't even show any violence in this country any more. Again I say, please give me an example where we have t.v. shows for kids that teach hatred for it's fellow man.

I feel like it is an ideological war, one waged between minds, not something we are going to win with firepower.

 

Habib, I don't know that I've ever agreed with you before, but this is absoluetly one I agree with, and don't mind saying so! :thumb:

Habib, I don't know that I've ever agreed with you before, but this is absoluetly one I agree with, and don't mind saying so! :thumb:

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. :lol:

You say that like it's a bad thing. :lol:

 

No...I never think agreeing with someone is a bad thing!

Even Bush calls it a war of ideology, but we are doing nothing on that front.

 

The best we can hope for is to someday come to the realization that our culture is not acceptable to most Islamic nations, recognize that are presence and our beliefs are not welcome there, and hope that if we agree to stay out they will agree to quit plotting our destruction.

 

A quid pro quo. We keep our culture completely out of yours and you stop trying to kill us.

Heck, cartoons aimed at 3-4 yr olds don't even show any violence in this country any more. Again I say, please give me an example where we have t.v. shows for kids that teach hatred for it's fellow man.

 

I never said we have shows for kids that do this. Parents can do this sufficiently well, with out the aid of a cartoon. See my post #5. The fact that Hamas has such a show is...terrible and very troubling.

 

The rest of my post is not a reply to RTS's post or directed specifically at him:

 

Something else that is troubling to me is that we seem to gloss over our own faults that are sometimes similar to the ones that we see in others. We do this as a country, too. It has not been all that many years since racially motivated killings of blacks were common. Though less rare today, it does still occur. I cannot remember his name, but what about the man in Texas that was dragged behind a vehicle a few years ago? It is not just a one way issue. White, black, Hispanic - it can go all ways. Racially motivated crimes from one group to the other still occur. There are still instances, too, where the marriage of an interracial couple results in a disownment in the family.

 

The connection between the original post and what I added was based on the aiming of the horrendous show at the 3-4 yro range. I wrote a thesis on prejudice and racism and in the research, I learned that this was the most impressionable two years of life when it comes to those areas. What children learn about people (and how their parents/adults interact or do not interact with them) gives a mindset that is difficult to change later in life. That fact that Hamas is aiming a show (or segment of a show) at teaching kids that it is honorable or their duty to kill someone is, for lack of a stronger, more appropriate word, despicable. So, too, is it for anyone that teaches hatred of someone based on their race or religion.

 

...or their political affiliation. Just wanted to throw that in to lighten the mood!

All I can say is the fighting will never stop.

Habib, I don't know that I've ever agreed with you before, but this is absoluetly one I agree with, and don't mind saying so! :thumb:

I am with both of you on that. :thumb:

I feel like it is an ideological war, one waged between minds, not something we are going to win with firepower.

As often as I agree with you Habib, I really have to disagree with you here. It is an ideological war, but not one that we are going to win by changing minds in the Muslim world. It just ain't going to happen. Our biggest failure in the ME is our failure to understand the mindset of the people who live there. They are entrenched in their religion (not necessarily a bad thing) and beliefs. They also come from a culture, much like the rest of Asia, where mercy is considered a sign of weakness. Until we are willing to fight them on their terms, they will consider us a weak people unworthy of living.

All I can say is the fighting will never stop.

 

 

The fighting on BGP you mean??:argue:

The fighting on BGP you mean??:argue:

 

We're not fighting, we're "discussing".

 

 

 

 

That's what my kids used to tell me when I would overhear one of their "discussions" that would be taking place at the tops of their lungs. Maybe I should have had their hearing checked.