This is Ace's thread and his thoughts...he is entitled...and its over my head.

You and are saying the same thing, but coming from different angles. I am trying to respond to Ace. One of Ace's theorem's is that, over time, the term "liberal" has been turned into a bad word. And he's right. Now, it may be the liberal's FAULT that the word "liberal" is now perjorative, but the fact remains that if you, Ram, want to be truly conservative, than you should not accept the "re-defining" of the term and should instead stick to its traditional meaning. That is why I prefer to look at the issues as party measuring sticks, not the "re-defined" ideological measuring sticks.

 

Let me use a case in point: the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). Here is an organization that, at its root, has as its guiding mission the preservation and defense of the Bill of Rights and individual freedom from government intervention and intrusion, even in times of national emergency. In the 1940's and 50's, the ACLU was the organization MOST likely to defend your right to own and use a weapon, speak on the courthouse steps, or have a lawyer defend you in court. Things you and I believe in. However, like many organizations, it has been overtaken by zealots with no understanding or respect for truth or institution, and it has become the organization we hate so much today. However, the ACLU was classically "liberal" in the 40's and 50's because they espouse individual rights over government intrusion, and that is to be heralded. Today, I would argue they are merely a mouthpiece for the issues espoused by the far-left faction of the Democratic Party.

 

 

Gotha. I was trying to understand how we were getting so far apart on this, but the above post cleared it up.:thumb:

I think it became perjorative with Dukakis and the attacks on him in the primary. My biggest question really, is what is wrong with those statements - I understand the objection to abortion, the other ones I have a hard time seeing why Sean Hannity et al, talk about liberalism as something evil. Even on here there are times when liberals and liberal ideas are demeened (sp) - Never me, but the more public figures, and I know that same is true of conservatives, but since I lean more to the left I brought it up. It was inspired by some of the thread topics I had been reading that day.

 

LBBC is correct - my views are inspired by my religious belief and I am a christian (deacon, ss teacher, team leader, blah, blah, blah). I just can't fiure out why these beliefs are painted so negatively.

I tend to demonize liberals because I tend to think that they feel the government better knows how individuals should live.

 

They seem to favor redistribution of wealth and if anything have demonized those that have achieved wealth, that is unless you are an unapologetic lefty.

 

The whole global warming debate has gotten very old particularly when lefty poster boy Al Gore seems to expect everyone but himself to make changes in their lifestyle.

 

Their other poster boy Bill CLinton continues to live off of the public dime at a rate much higher then any of the other living ex-presidents and yet he and his wife are the first in line to try to get MORE of the public's tax money.

 

I am baffled when they tell me that the tax cuts that President Bush pushed through only help the wealthy when I know for a fact I am taking home more money then I was before them and I also know that I am in no way wealthy. I am also angry when they use spin to try to convince me that if they allow those cuts to expire it won't really be a tax hike.

 

I was very liberal during my college years (I am ashamed to admit that I voted for Carter and Clinton both twice as well as once for Mondale). Luckily I outgrew those ideals.:thumb:

Ace..go to quick links and click on posts by you and read. I don't want to go in detail because I mentioned how "you are entitled to your beliefs". I've asked you to clear up some comments about hell and the Homosexuals that is mentioned in scripture.

Ace..go to quick links and click on posts by you and read. I don't want to go in detail because I mentioned how "you are entitled to your beliefs". I've asked you to clear up some comments about hell and the Homosexuals that is mentioned in scripture.

 

 

I think the writings about homosexuals in the Bible was more a result of the culture and less about the focus of living the life of christ - Christ never mentions it, and again focuses on the rich and righteous (self maybe) more than anything else.

 

Hell, I am not so sure about. I don't think it is demanded by God's nature, and I think the human idea of it goes against God's nature, but i can understand why the idea of it is necessary for some.

Thanks for the comeback.

I think it became perjorative with Dukakis and the attacks on him in the primary. My biggest question really, is what is wrong with those statements - I understand the objection to abortion, the other ones I have a hard time seeing why Sean Hannity et al, talk about liberalism as something evil. Even on here there are times when liberals and liberal ideas are demeened (sp) - Never me, but the more public figures, and I know that same is true of conservatives, but since I lean more to the left I brought it up. It was inspired by some of the thread topics I had been reading that day.

 

LBBC is correct - my views are inspired by my religious belief and I am a christian (deacon, ss teacher, team leader, blah, blah, blah). I just can't fiure out why these beliefs are painted so negatively.

 

 

Your beliefs and your activities show that you are a very caring, compassionate person. And the liberal "beliefs" that you have set forth above are a further indication of such. The reason they get painted so negatively (and in my opinion are more attractive to people while they are young, but lose their bloom as people get older) is that they are utopian like and don't readily work in the real world. All of your beliefs are really nice and wonderful and it would be great if people could act that way, but that dang thing called reality always wants to crash the party, and people don't act the way they should. I've always said, "show me a dyed in the wool liberal, and I'll show you one of the most caring, compassionate, nicest person in the world, but I'll also show you one of the most naive persons in the world". And frankly I can understand people choosing to take the naivete with the other good qualities. I don't think the principles are negative because they are "wrong", but rather because they don't work in a capitalistic society.

Your beliefs and your activities show that you are a very caring, compassionate person. And the liberal "beliefs" that you have set forth above are a further indication of such. The reason they get painted so negatively (and in my opinion are more attractive to people while they are young, but lose their bloom as people get older) is that they are utopian like and don't readily work in the real world. All of your beliefs are really nice and wonderful and it would be great if people could act that way, but that dang thing called reality always wants to crash the party, and people don't act the way they should. I've always said, "show me a dyed in the wool liberal, and I'll show you one of the most caring, compassionate, nicest person in the world, but I'll also show you one of the most naive persons in the world". And frankly I can understand people choosing to take the naivete with the other good qualities. I don't think the principles are negative because they are "wrong", but rather because they don't work in a capitalistic society.

 

I can live with that reasoning, but I disagree. I am 40 now and WAAAAY more liberal than I was at 18. It was the shift in my religious beliefs that moved me that way.

I can live with that reasoning, but I disagree. I am 40 now and WAAAAY more liberal than I was at 18. It was the shift in my religious beliefs that moved me that way.

Interesting that many that know me would say that it is my religious beliefs that have moved me towards a labeling of conservative.

 

While I believe that personally it depends on the issue on whether I would be seen as liberal or conservative.

When a liberal sees problem they say "We need to do something" and by "We" they mean the government. When a conservative sees a problem they say "We need to do something that works". By adding the phrase "that works" it usually eliminates the government as being the solution and so the "We" is "you" and "I" activing as private citizens.

This thread is just chock full of blind generalizations...both ways, guys...not just one.

You know what I wish? I wish people would quit trying to pigeon hole whole groups of people based on something like political theocracy. I've found only a very few people actually fit the extreme of any political theory, and most fall somewhere in the middle, kind of weavig over and back of a line down the middle. All these generalizations do is perpetuate ill-will and misunderstanding.

 

In the words of Trey Parker, co-creator of Southpark-

 

""The show [southpark] is saying that there is a middle ground, that most of us actually live in this middle ground, and that all you extremists are the ones who have the microphones because you’re the most interesting to listen to, but actually this group isn’t evil, that group isn’t evil, and there’s something to be worked out here.."

 

Ironically, the only reason Parker has a microphone is for creating an extreme show

On the issue of homosexuality, sometimes I think that, even though homosexuality is incredibly morally wrong (according to me), maybe it is not the role of government to regulate it. I'm unsure at this point.

 

Then again, even though it opens up floodgates of Big Brother, gov't control, ect., I'd still vote for no gay marriage.

In the words of Trey Parker, co-creator of Southpark-

 

""The show [southpark] is saying that there is a middle ground, that most of us actually live in this middle ground, and that all you extremists are the ones who have the microphones because you’re the most interesting to listen to, but actually this group isn’t evil, that group isn’t evil, and there’s something to be worked out here.."

 

Ironically, the only reason Parker has a microphone is for creating an extreme show

 

Well, he's successful, so I feel pretty darned good about what I said!