March 23, 200719 yr Big difference. They both had experienced losing seasons, missed out on NCAA bids, and even missed NIT invites. UK was never in the same situation as either of those two. Add UCONN to the list of missed NCAA and NIT bids, too.
March 23, 200719 yr Big difference. They both had experienced losing seasons, missed out on NCAA bids, and even missed NIT invites. UK was never in the same situation as either of those two. I didn't say they were exactly the same...just that we should have a pretty good idea of how they'd react...maybe you don't see it the same way I do, and that's fine. :thumb:
March 23, 200719 yr I think we should already have a pretty good idea about UNC and UCLA... No I dont think so. Unless Tubby would have came to their school under the same situation where the school had been to two straight finals. If he went to UNC after Daughtery, or the coach before that then he would have been just fine there. Now he would have started to get some heat for the last two years. However people here were giving Tubby heat even before the last two years, and that would not have happened there IMO, because what Tubby did in his first 8 years were pretty good. Just that great run we had from 96 to 98 gave people unrealistic expectations. So like I said unless Tubby would have taken over at the same situation at those schools as he did here, then he would have been just fine at those schools with his resume. It was just the situation he came here under, that hurt Tubby the most, because NO COACH IN AMERICA would have came in and would have been able to keep people happy after Pitino....
March 23, 200719 yr Add UCONN to the list of missed NCAA and NIT bids, too. Not really valid here because Calhoun built UConn from ground zero, so that in itself earns him more slack and they aren't at the elite level nationally that the others schools that were mentioned are.
March 23, 200719 yr No I dont think so. Unless Tubby would have came to their school under the same situation where the school had been to two straight finals. If he went to UNC after Daughtery, or the coach before that then he would have been just fine there. Now he would have started to get some heat for the last two years. However people here were giving Tubby heat even before the last two years, and that would not have happened there IMO, because what Tubby did in his first 8 years were pretty good. Just that great run we had from 96 to 98 gave people unrealistic expectations. So like I said unless Tubby would have taken over at the same situation at those schools as he did here, then he would have been just fine at those schools with his resume. It was just the situation he came here under, that hurt Tubby the most, because NO COACH IN AMERICA would have came in and would have been able to keep people happy after Pitino.... Again, see post #32, I didn't say they were exactly the same...just saying we should have a pretty good idea of how they'd react in a similar situation. If you see it differently, that's fine. :thumb:
March 23, 200719 yr My parents are on in Florida ready to go on a cruise. And he said from the Florida media's perspective, the fans are out of control and unrealistic in KY. So they are saying UK's basketball fans are pretty much the same as UF's football fans...
March 23, 200719 yr Again, see post #32, I didn't say they were exactly the same...just saying we should have a pretty good idea of how they'd react in a similar situation. If you see it differently, that's fine. :thumb: I dont think we get a pretty good idea, because Tubby's resume would have been alot better than the coaches they got rid of. Yeah in the last two seasons, it would have started to get people talking a little bit. However there would have been not many people talking like the UK fans were during Tubby's first 8 years, because Tubby's resume for the first 8 years was pretty good. Tubby's resume compared to the guys they got rid of, really dont compare to much. So we really dont see at all how they would have reacte in a similar situation...
March 23, 200719 yr So they are saying UK's basketball fans are pretty much the same as UF's football fans... I thought UF football fans were a league of their own.
March 23, 200719 yr 10 years at UK, 1 championship, no other Final Four appearances since (the longest such streak in UK history), 5 out of 10 seasons came with double digit losses, bowed out in the second round of the tourney 3 of the last 4 years...if UNC, Duke, etc went through the same stretches with one coach, they would be up in arms. Coach K at Duke will be given more slack because of more sustained excellence over his longer tenure. Otherwise, the upper echelon teams do not have terribly patient fans. When UK struggles to even crack the top 25 the year after struggling to stay in the top 25 and the immediate future does not look any better than the recent past, it's time for OTS to move on. Minnesota will be happy with 20 wins and being a perrenial NIT team who gets the occasional NCAA bid. IMO, UK was lucky to get an at large bid this year and would have more than likely been an NIT team next season.
March 23, 200719 yr I dont think we get a pretty good idea, because Tubby's resume would have been alot better than the coaches they got rid of. Yeah in the last two seasons, it would have started to get people talking a little bit. However there would have been not many people talking like the UK fans were during Tubby's first 8 years, because Tubby's resume for the first 8 years was pretty good. Tubby's resume compared to the guys they got rid of, really dont compare to much. So we really dont see at all how they would have reacte in a similar situation... Here's a little UCLA history for you... John Wooden (1948-1975) .808 winning pct (620-147) 10 National Titles 12 Final Fours 15 Pac-10 Championships Gene Bartow (1975-1977) .852 winning pct (52-9) 1 Final Four 2 Pac-10 Championships Note: Bartow went 28-5 in 1976 and lost in the national semi-finals, won 85.2% of his games (compared to Wooden's 80.8%) in two years, yet received death threats from unsatisfied UCLA fans. Gary Cunningham (1977-1979) .862 winning pct (50-8) 2 Pac-10 Championships Larry Brown (1979-1981) .712 winning pct (42-17) 1 Final Four (National Runner-up) Note: Forced to leave due to NCAA violations Larry Farmer (1981-1984) .726 winning pct (61-23) 1 Pac-10 Championship So, yes, I think I can make a pretty good assumption about UCLA would react in a similar situation. :thumb:
March 23, 200719 yr As for North Carolina after Dean Smith...Bill Guthridge coached for 3 seasons with a .741 winning percentage (80-28 and two final four appearances). Remind me again, how did that end? So, yes, I think I can make a pretty good assumption about how UNC would react as well.
March 23, 200719 yr 10 years at UK, 1 championship, no other Final Four appearances since (the longest such streak in UK history), 5 out of 10 seasons came with double digit losses, bowed out in the second round of the tourney 3 of the last 4 years...if UNC, Duke, etc went through the same stretches with one coach, they would be up in arms. Coach K at Duke will be given more slack because of more sustained excellence over his longer tenure. Otherwise, the upper echelon teams do not have terribly patient fans. When UK struggles to even crack the top 25 the year after struggling to stay in the top 25 and the immediate future does not look any better than the recent past, it's time for OTS to move on. Minnesota will be happy with 20 wins and being a perrenial NIT team who gets the occasional NCAA bid. IMO, UK was lucky to get an at large bid this year and would have more than likely been an NIT team next season. :thumb: Which is pretty much what I've been saying, but some people don't want to believe that for some reason...they want to paint UK fans in a class of their own, because they demand a lot from their program and can be quite vocal when they don't get it...but they are from being in a class of their own. Their are several fan bases that are similar...I think I've shown a couple of them pretty clearly...and, of course, we could go into football and talk about teams like Alabama as well.
March 23, 200719 yr Or maybe it's just that I'm embarrassed to be consider a UK fan when I get home from work and on ESPN they're talkin bout how much this is the FAN fault. It is purely the fans fault for the longest final 4 drought in school history, it is purely the fans fault for not being ok with the new 10+ loss seasons each year. It is purely the fans fault for not enjoying watching players who cant walk and chew gum at the same time. It is a purely the fans fault that Tubby "the great" coach he is can't recruit. He NEVER brought one LOTTERY pick to UK. NOT ONE. It's all the fans fault. The fanbase made a statement. We do not except mediocre or being "good." This is a program that demands excellence. If you can't handle that or don't like those kind of expecations, then become a UM fan. You can be good all you want there. We will not miss you. This is KY.. the roman empire of college basketbal. Whenever we travel we bring an army of fans with us. We always out number fan bases in neutral sight games. And we bring a strong showing to all of the opposing SEC gyms. Our fans deserve a strong product. We invest a lot into it and expect to get something back. Not getting dominated by FL the last 3 years, or Vandy. We are the Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers of college sports. We expect to contend each year. Not a sweet 16 over the last 3 seasons. This is not Minnesota.
March 23, 200719 yr As Joe B. Hall once said, "No one person is bigger than the program itself ". I do not believe it's a case as they thought Tubby was bigger than the program. I feel they ( and I) just thought Tubby was right for the program. We supported UK & OTS with all positive feedback through all the tough times as well as the good. Tubby has now moved on and the UK program will continue as it always has. There were coaches before Tubby Smith and there will be coaches after he is gone. I will miss Tubby as the head coach at UK but today starts a new chapter in Kentucky basketball history. We as fans need to learn something from the fans in Minnesota and accept our new coach as they have accepted theirs.
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