12 hours ago, James Graham said:

Population is king in high school football.

3 hours ago, theguru said:

We should be able to get a really good idea by looking at enrollment and calpreps.

These two points allude to the essential answer to the question posed in the original post.

The good schools in Ohio, for the most part, enjoy their success based largely off of the population that they get to draw from. The schools in the GCL south are what they are because of their lack of geographical school districts. And the public school teams that tend to compete well year to year have done so because of demographics and size.

A completely non-scientific list of "good teams" from Cincinnati, in my mind, would be Elder, LaSalle, Moeller, St. Xavier, Anderson, Winton Woods, Princeton, Lakota West. You could also add in Hamilton and Middletown if you want to include teams from a little further north of Cincinnati, and if you want to include some bubble teams that generally have strong programs but aren't frequently making a big splash in the playoffs, maybe add in Lakota East, Mason, Fairfield, Kings, Sycamore, and Harrison. Colerain has kind of fallen on hard times, and pending the result of their merger with Northwest High School, that may turn around a little, but for now I see them as riding the struggle bus for an indefinite amount of time.

Looking at the top teams around NKY, I guess let's say the qualifier there is that they have made the state finals in the last 25 years. So that means Beechwood, Ryle, Cooper, Cov Cath, Highlands, New Cath, Simon Kenton, and Dixie.

I used the KHSAA's 2023-24 school year enrollment figures for the Kentucky Schools, and just googled each of the Ohio school enrollments, so none of these figures are really 100% for this school year, but it would give a definite idea of where all of those schools stand in terms of the swath of students they are able to draw from in order to figure how they compete.

OH-D1 Mason: 3,508
OH-D1 Lakota West: 2,740
OH-D1 St. Xavier: 2,738 (x2 actual 1,369 all-boys)
OH-D1 Lakota East: 2,605
OH-D1 Hamilton: 2,507
OH-D1 Fairfield: 2,216
KY-6A Ryle: 2,013
KY-6A Simon Kenton: 1,882
OH-D1 Middletown: 1,753
OH-D1 Moeller: 1,738 (x2 actual 869 all-boys)
OH-D1 Princeton: 1,690
OH-D1 Elder: 1,678 (x2 actual 839 all-boys)
OH-D1 Sycamore: 1,620
KY-5A Dixie Heights: 1,535
KY-5A Cooper: 1,462
OH-D2 Kings: 1,435
OH-D1 Winton Woods: 1,241
OH-D2 Anderson: 1,215
OH-D2 Harrison: 1,094
OH-D2 LaSalle: 1,092 (x2 actual 546 all-boys)
KY-5A Highlands: 1,022
KY-4A Covington Catholic: 992 (x2 actual 496 all-boys)
KY-2A Beechwood: 507
KY-1A Newport Central Catholic: 231

Ryle versus similarly sized schools in Cincinnati, per CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Ryle (2,013) 28 Mason (3,508) 7
Lakota West (2,740) 28 Ryle (2,013) 20
St. Xavier (2,738) 26 Ryle (2,013) 17
Ryle (2,013) 31 Lakota East (2,605) 28
Ryle (2,013) 24 Hamilton (2,507) 19
Ryle (2,013) 44 Fairfield (2,216) 14
Ryle (2,013) 34 Middletown (1,753) 10
Moeller (1,738) 38 Ryle (2,013) 20
Princeton (1,690) 22 Ryle (2,013) 19
Elder (1,678) 21 Ryle (2,013) 20
Ryle (2,013) 48 Sycamore (1,620) 6

So against 11 Greater Cincinnati teams of fairly similar size enrollments, Ryle goes 6-5. Three of the five teams that would beat them are GCL South teams, which are all teams that I think do punch above their weight because, somewhat based off of their lack of geographic school districts. Regardless, when all 11 of those teams are from relative the cream of the crop in Cincinnati, I would say that speaks well for Ryle overall.

Simon Kenton versus similarly sized schools in Cincinnati, per CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Mason (3,508) 34 Simon Kenton (1,882) 20
Lakota West (2,740) 52 Simon Kenton (1,882) 12
St. Xavier (2,738) 49 Simon Kenton (1,882) 17
Lakota East (2,605) 52 Simon Kenton (1,882) 24
Hamilton (2,507) 42 Simon Kenton (1,882) 14
Fairfield (2,216) 38 Simon Kenton (1,882) 37
Middletown (1,753) 35 Simon Kenton (1,882) 26
Moeller (1,738) 62 Simon Kenton (1,882) 10
Princeton (1,690) 48 Simon Kenton (1,882) 10
Elder (1,678) 46 Simon Kenton (1,882) 13
Simon Kenton (1,882) 40 Sycamore (1,620) 28

Simon Kenton goes 0-11 against 11 of the top Greater Cincinnati teams of fairly similar size enrollments. Enough said.

Dixie Heights versus similarly sized schools in Cincinnati, per CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Middletown (1,753) 35 Dixie Heights (1,535) 21
Moeller (1,738) 62 Dixie Heights (1,535) 7
Princeton (1,690) 46 Dixie Heights (1,535) 7
Elder (1,678) 44 Dixie Heights (1,535) 8
Dixie Heights (1,535) 35 Sycamore (1,620) 28
Kings (1,435) 42 Dixie Heights (1,535) 14
Winton Woods (1,241) 42 Dixie Heights (1,535) 10
Anderson (1,215) 56 Dixie Heights (1,535) 8
Harrison (1,094) 46 Dixie Heights (1,535) 21
La Salle (1,092) 48 Dixie Heights (1,535) 10

Dixie goes 1-9 against 10 of the top Greater Cincinnati teams of fairly similar size enrollments.

We'll see one of these matchups next season as Cooper plays Anderson.

Cooper versus similarly sized schools in Cincinnati, per CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Cooper (1,462) 42 Middletown (1,753) 17
Moeller (1,738) 42 Cooper (1,462) 27
Princeton (1,690) 28 Cooper (1,462) 27 *
Cooper (1,462) 28 Elder (1,678) 27
Cooper (1,462) 55 Sycamore (1,620) 8
Cooper (1,462) 31 Kings (1,435) 21
Cooper (1,462) 28 Winton Woods (1,241) 22
Anderson (1,215) 38 Cooper (1,462) 28
Cooper (1,462) 40 Harrison (1,094) 28
La Salle (1,092) 31 Cooper (1,462) 28

Cooper goes 6-4 against 10 of the top Greater Cincinnati teams of fairly similar size enrollments. I'd say that's doing pretty well for Cooper, for sure. Especially since 2 of those losses are to GCL South teams.

* Calpreps has Cooper winning 28-26 in the playoffs.

Highlands versus similarly sized schools in Cincinnati, per CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Princeton (1,690) 28 Highlands (1,022) 21
Elder (1,678) 28 Highlands (1,022) 21
Highlands (1,022) 48 Sycamore (1,620) 10
Highlands (1,022) 27 Kings (1,435) 22
Winton Woods (1,241) 24 Highlands (1,022) 22
Anderson (1,215) 40 Highlands (1,022) 21
Highlands (1,022) 34 Harrison (1,094) 28
La Salle (1,092) 31 Highlands (1,022) 22

Highlands goes 3-5 against 8 of the top Greater Cincinnati teams of fairly similar size enrollments. These are the "top" teams from Cincinnati, and the lowest enrollment number for any of those top teams is larger than enrollment at Highlands - so "similar size" is relative, considering the third smallest enrollment on the list of Cincinnati competitors here (Anderson) is nearly 20% larger than Highlands' enrollment, and the largest enrollment number on the list (Princeton) is 65% larger than Highlands' enrollment.

Cov Cath versus similarly sized schools in Cincinnati, per CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Princeton (1,690) 26 Covington Catholic (992) 14
Elder (1,678) 22 Covington Catholic (992) 17
Covington Catholic (992) 42 Sycamore (1,620) 6
Covington Catholic (992) 21 Kings (1,435) 20
Winton Woods (1,241) 21 Covington Catholic (992) 17
Anderson (1,215) 35 Covington Catholic (992) 17
Covington Catholic (992) 28 Harrison (1,094) 26
La Salle (1,092) 28 Covington Catholic (992) 17

Cov Cath goes 3-5 against 8 of the top Greater Cincinnati teams of fairly similar size enrollments. Same basic results as Highlands.

I did a little digging to find similarly sized schools to Beechwood in southwest Ohio. Taft and Wyoming are good, off and on, and then both Indian Hill & Roger Bacon occasionally have a good season. Otherwise the similarly sized schools in Greater Cincinnati don't really do much...which speaks fairly highly for how Beechwood stacks up, I would say.

OH-D4 Reading: 666
OH-D4 Indian Hill: 662
OH-D4 Wyoming: 600
OH D4 Roger Bacon: 540
KY-2A Beechwood: 507
OH-D4 Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy: 503
OH-D4 Fenwick: 523
OH-D4 Taft: 484
OH-D4 Shroder Paideia Academy: 476
OH-D4 Gamble Montessori: 473

CalPreps 2024 season projections:

Beechwood (507) 44 Reading (666) 13
Beechwood (507) 38 Wyoming (600) 26
Beechwood (507) 35 Indian Hill (662) 26
Beechwood (507) 44 Roger Bacon (540) 14
Beechwood (507) 48 Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy (503) 22
Beechwood (507) 42 Fenwick (523) 10
Taft (484) 31 Beechwood (507) 28
Beechwood (507) 49 Shroder Paideia Academy (476) 8
Beechwood (507) 62 Gamble Montessori (473) 0

The Tigers go 8-1 against the 9 similarly sized high schools I was able to find in Greater Cincinnati. Definitely not bad at all. Doesn't look like Greater Cincinnati is the real king in that case.

On 12/17/2024 at 8:24 AM, snakesnot_2000 said:

Is Cincinnati High School Football the real king in the Greater Cincinnati area? Do they play a better brand of football across the river? How would Beechwood do if they played comparable teams over in the Cincinnati area?

The KHSAA scoreboard goes back to 1998.  If you go year by year, Beechwood is 8-4 against Ohio teams during that time span.  Most of those games were played when Beechwood was still in 1A. I would guess the majority were against schools with larger enrollments (in several of the games much larger enrollments). Prior to 1998 you have the Beechwood win over CAPE in '84 which is mentioned in this thread, and I know they beat Wyoming and Purcell Marian in the '90s.  I believe both of those games were in '97 but I could be mistaken. That would make the Tigers 11-4 against Ohio teams.  I'm sure they've played more games against Ohio schools but those are just the ones off the top of my head.  

37 minutes ago, SPKY17 said:

The KHSAA scoreboard goes back to 1998.  If you go year by year, Beechwood is 8-4 against Ohio teams during that time span.  Most of those games were played when Beechwood was still in 1A. I would guess the majority were against schools with larger enrollments (in several of the games much larger enrollments). Prior to 1998 you have the Beechwood win over CAPE in '84 which is mentioned in this thread, and I know they beat Wyoming and Purcell Marian in the '90s.  I believe both of those games were in '97 but I could be mistaken. That would make the Tigers 11-4 against Ohio teams.  I'm sure they've played more games against Ohio schools but those are just the ones off the top of my head.  

Since 1980 Beechwood vs Ohio
1981 Beat N. College Hill

1982 Lost N. College Hill

1984 Beat C.A.P.E.

1985 Beat Madeira

1986 Beat Madeira

1987 Beat Reading

1988 Beat Reading

1989 Beat Mason

1990 Beat Mason

1993 Beat Taylor

1994 Beat Taylor

1997 Beat Wyoming

1997 Beat Purcell Marian

1998 Beat Ironton

1999 Beat Western Hills

2003 Beat Bishop Ready

2004 Beat Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy

2005 Beat Newark Catholic

2005 Lost  Alter

2006 Lost  Alter

2103 Beat Lima Senior

2014 Lost Mt Healthy

2015 Beat Ironton

2019 Lost Taft

2023 Beat McNicholas

 20-5 since 1980

10 minutes ago, gbballfan21 said:

Since 1980 Beechwood vs Ohio
1981 Beat N. College Hill

1982 Lost N. College Hill

1984 Beat C.A.P.E.

1985 Beat Madeira

1986 Beat Madeira

1987 Beat Reading

1988 Beat Reading

1989 Beat Mason

1990 Beat Mason

1993 Beat Taylor

1994 Beat Taylor

1997 Beat Wyoming

1997 Beat Purcell Marian

1998 Beat Ironton

1999 Beat Western Hills

2003 Beat Bishop Ready

2004 Beat Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy

2005 Beat Newark Catholic

2005 Lost  Alter

2006 Lost  Alter

2103 Beat Lima Senior

2014 Lost Mt Healthy

2015 Beat Ironton

2019 Lost Taft

2023 Beat McNicholas

 20-5 since 1980

Not too shabby.  Not to beat a dead horse, but that 2023 McNicholas win could have quite possibly cost them a Ky 2A Championship.

Just now, Oldercoach said:

Not too shabby.  Not to beat a dead horse, but that 2023 McNicholas win could have quite possibly cost them a Ky 2A Championship.

Yep, but beggars can’t be choosers when making the schedule. Trying to find games that make sense for the Tigers, isn’t easy to do. I don’t think they will be playing any out of state teams for quite a while, and that’s a shame, because that game against McNick was a great environment and really good game to start the season.

22 hours ago, theguru said:

22 hours ago, snakesnot_2000 said:

 

I think Beechwood was underrated this year in every poll/rating.  

I have stated that exact thing for the entire season. It makes me really question our ranking system.

10 minutes ago, GBR said:

I have stated that exact thing for the entire season. It makes me really question our ranking system.

Completely agree, BUT a lot of people didn’t know how really good the Beechwood team was this year because having two really good players out vs. Cov Cath and for early part of the season.

When one of those kids finally got back for the last few games left and the dynamics changed because of what it opened up for receivers on offense and made the defense much better in the secondary.  Those that know Beechwood know what I’m talking about.  
 

Granted, more and more Beechwood players started stepping up later in season as well.  The O-Line and D-Line handled business regardless the size of their opposition.

Edited December 18, 20241 yr by The_Bull44