I'm forced to say... yes and no.

 

I believe that part of being a Christian is worshipping together with other people. The Good Lord wasn't just blowing smoke with the whole "Where two or more are gathered in My name" business.

 

At the same time, I have to believe that you can go without ever setting foot in a church. If I didn't believe in deathbed and last-minute conversions, then that would clearly not be in keeping with the awesome power of God's mercy.

 

If this thread just means, "Can you claim to be a Christian every day and not go to church, though the means are there for it?" then I'd have to say no. Not if you buy into everything the Gospels and the Church ever had to say on the subject.

Yes, you are missing something. You are taking these verses out of context. You have to look at Scripture in its entirety.

 

Christians do not have an "absolute" assurance of salvation. Consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

 

"Are you saved?" Here's how I reply: As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).

 

Now why in the world would Paul (or we) have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Think about it!

 

The Greek phrase "work out" denotes the expression of something one already possesses.

 

If I have to work out my salvation, when do I know that I've done enough?

 

1 Cor. 3:12-15 just convinces me more of this, especially verse 15 - "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Again, my take on that is that there are some saved people who don't live and do as they should, yet they are saved.

 

I try to read the Bible, go to church, do good works, etc...not because I'm working out my salvation, but because of my salvation. I do it out of love for Christ and what He did for me. As John wrote in 1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth"

 

So, if someone professes to be saved, yet continues to live as they did before, then I have serious doubts as to whether they were ever saved. But, that's not for me to judge or know...

 

I'm confident and fully assured of my salvation, not because of anything I've done, but because of what Jesus did and what he said was required to be saved. I do the other things because they bring me closer to Him and they bring me peace and joy. However, they do not and cannot save me. If they could, Christ would have never needed to come.

Going to church isn't necessary to be saved. Fellowship is strongly encouraged for those who are saved.

When I started this thread, I don't think I was clear in what I meant. Many of you have given very well-thought out and intelligent answer. Can someone re-examine this question:

 

Can one acheive Salvation while consistently rejecting going to Church because of selfish and human ambitions? GottaRebound's original comment (while not intended this way) got me thinking about those who don't go to Church because it is boring, or a very small number of people in the Church are corrupt, or because they don't like people there. Is it not a sin to reject going to Church even though you know that you should?

When I started this thread, I don't think I was clear in what I meant. Many of you have given very well-thought out and intelligent answer. Can someone re-examine this question:

 

Can one acheive Salvation while consistently rejecting going to Church because of selfish and human ambitions? GottaRebound's original comment (while not intended this way) got me thinking about those who don't go to Church because it is boring, or a very small number of people in the Church are corrupt, or because they don't like people there. Is it not a sin to reject going to Church even though you know that you should?

 

Yes.

Yes.

I agree. I think a rejection of attending any church would make me question one's salvation.

How often did Jesus attend the Temple meetings? I know from scriptures that He attended some but most of the time it was to either read from Isaiah to only to have people try to stone Him or He was there with a whip driving out the merchants who were there to make a profit on Temple sacrifices.

 

Jesus often found fellowship in a boat, at a well, on a lake, or in a sinners house for dinner. Do people need to fellowship with other believers? Absolutely! But they can do that anywhere. I look at church as a place that those believers can get "Re-Fueled", "Re-Energized" for the rest of the week. Some need church more than others. I am not a Joel Osteen bandwagon jumper nor am I a basher, he is what he is and that is what is important but I heard him say one time in a message that he himself does NOT even attend Lakewood on Sunday nights, and they have a regular sunday night meeting! Most pastors would be fired or voted out for that, but his congregation understands that church isnt mandatory not even for the Senior Pastor.

Yes.

 

Isn't that just like sinning repeatedly because you know that God will forgive you? Similarly, if I murder someone with no fear because I know that God is forgiving, am I in the clear afterwards? It seems like a Rasputin-like sense of faith.

Isn't that just like sinning repeatedly because you know that God will forgive you? Similarly, if I murder someone with no fear because I know that God is forgiving, am I in the clear afterwards? It seems like a Rasputin-like sense of faith.

 

No. I don't believe that our salvation is contingent upon going to church. That is just my personal belief and the way I have understood the bible.

No. I don't believe that our salvation is contingent upon going to church. That is just my personal belief and the way I have understood the bible.

Not trying to start anything, but can you give me that perspective? Jesus started the Church for a reason. Many people have quoted Scripture verses that say going to Church (or at least public worship) is necessary and God's will.

 

I am not lambasting you or your beliefs, I just want to try to understand the other side of the argument.

What Jesus started in the church was a glorious thing and the church (YOU and I, not a building) is in the process of being refined for the glory of God. I have often heard people state that the Church is the Bride of Christ. This IMO, is very misleading and inaccurate to the degree that the church thinks that we are some beautiful bride and that Christ the Groomsmen is suppose to bow down to our every whimper and plea. The Bride of Christ is mentioned in Revelation 21:1-2, and suggest that Heaven that New Jerusalem, will be the most beautiful thing that our eyes will behold, it is created by God and given to the Messianic King who is Jesus. The church is not the Bride of Christ but the New Jerusalem is the Bride.

 

The church is mentioned or described in the Bible as the BODY of Christ. We are arms, legs, heart, eyes, ears, nose, and so forth. The body has arms that should be reaching, feet that should be going, and a heart that should be loving.

 

So, is the church necessary to make it to heaven? Man's church of brick and mortar isnt but the true Church that Jesus established certainly is. In the books of acts, where did the Christians meet? There were no church buildings. They met anywhere they could meet. Down by the river, in homes, street corners. They did not forsake the assembling of themselves together just because they lacked a building. They were the church. And so are you if you have been saved. This is a question that crosses a fine thin line and can be debated forever.

 

Why should people go to church? The only reason IMO should be to have public worship. Sunday School is great but I dont rely on it to teach my kids, they are taught Biblical living principles at home as well. Teen meetings, that to should be done at home. Reading your Bible should be done at the house, dont just open it when you go to a public meeting, prayer and all aspects can be done in peoples homes including worship as well. If you think about it, what will we do in heaven? read the Bible? Teach Sunday School? We will Worship. Dont get me wrong, I am all for the extra activities of a local church but many parents rely on others rather than doing it themselves. Church. Church. Church. A great thing, when we realize we are the church and it is necessary.

I think I would disagree that Jesus started the church. I'd have to give that credit to Peter and Paul. Jesus was the foundation upon which the church was built.

I think I would disagree that Jesus started the church. I'd have to give that credit to Peter and Paul. Jesus was the foundation upon which the church was built.

 

 

Boy that is really splitting hairs...Jesus is the church, but if we want to get really technical about then I would have to renege my own post and say that the Holy Spirit started it on the day of Pentecost. According to almost all Theologians the day of Pentecost was the birthday of the church.

What Jesus started in the church was a glorious thing and the church (YOU and I, not a building) is in the process of being refined for the glory of God. I have often heard people state that the Church is the Bride of Christ. This IMO, is very misleading and inaccurate to the degree that the church thinks that we are some beautiful bride and that Christ the Groomsmen is suppose to bow down to our every whimper and plea. The Bride of Christ is mentioned in Revelation 21:1-2, and suggest that Heaven that New Jerusalem, will be the most beautiful thing that our eyes will behold, it is created by God and given to the Messianic King who is Jesus. The church is not the Bride of Christ but the New Jerusalem is the Bride.

 

The church is mentioned or described in the Bible as the BODY of Christ. We are arms, legs, heart, eyes, ears, nose, and so forth. The body has arms that should be reaching, feet that should be going, and a heart that should be loving.

 

So, is the church necessary to make it to heaven? Man's church of brick and mortar isnt but the true Church that Jesus established certainly is. In the books of acts, where did the Christians meet? There were no church buildings. They met anywhere they could meet. Down by the river, in homes, street corners. They did not forsake the assembling of themselves together just because they lacked a building. They were the church. And so are you if you have been saved. This is a question that crosses a fine thin line and can be debated forever.

 

Why should people go to church? The only reason IMO should be to have public worship. Sunday School is great but I dont rely on it to teach my kids, they are taught Biblical living principles at home as well. Teen meetings, that to should be done at home. Reading your Bible should be done at the house, dont just open it when you go to a public meeting, prayer and all aspects can be done in peoples homes including worship as well. If you think about it, what will we do in heaven? read the Bible? Teach Sunday School? We will Worship. Dont get me wrong, I am all for the extra activities of a local church but many parents rely on others rather than doing it themselves. Church. Church. Church. A great thing, when we realize we are the church and it is necessary.

 

First bolded....and whom teaches you. Just your reliance on reading the Bible? I love going to the D-Groups, Bible studies of those who have been studying the Bible for a long time and listen to their knowledge of the Bible. I DON'T take it as absolute knowledge but consider what they say, study it and come to my own views. Sometimes it matches their views.

 

I do absolutely agree that the number 1 responsibility of teaching your family falls on the parents with dad taking the spiritual lead.

 

I think there is ample evidence that we will do more than worship in a sense of singing. We will worship through serving him, just like we do here on

Earth. Revelations 7:15 and 22:3 both call those in Heaven servants who will serve Him day and night.

 

And BTW, for another thread, there is strong Scriptural evidence that Heaven will be here on Earth.

First bolded....and whom teaches you. Just your reliance on reading the Bible? I love going to the D-Groups, Bible studies of those who have been studying the Bible for a long time and listen to their knowledge of the Bible. I DON'T take it as absolute knowledge but consider what they say, study it and come to my own views. Sometimes it matches their views.

 

I do absolutely agree that the number 1 responsibility of teaching your family falls on the parents with dad taking the spiritual lead.

 

I think there is ample evidence that we will do more than worship in a sense of singing. We will worship through serving him, just like we do here on

Earth. Revelations 7:15 and 22:3 both call those in Heaven servants who will serve Him day and night.

 

And BTW, for another thread, there is strong Scriptural evidence that Heaven will be here on Earth.:p

 

Why don't you start a thread on that? In my Sunday School class we are currently talking about this very thing. Maybe I could garner some opinions on here to throw at them.

 

As for what you said, I would take it a step further...it seems to me that the Scriptural evidence leaves no doubt about Heaven being on Earth.