Great discussion.

 

To add to it, at any point was Judas saved? The Bible tells us that Satan entered him around the time of the Last Supper. So in all that traveling and listening to Jesus was he ever saved.

 

I personally think that Judas is the disciple that we can learn the most from. I say that in the essence that it is feasible to listen and hear Jesus word and be so very wrong. To, on the outside, do all the right "Christian" things, and be so very wrong.

 

Think about it, he didn't listen to a preacher preach from the Bible but sat and listen to Jesus. He sat and ate with Jesus. He had private conversations with Jesus. And still never got it while all the time fooling all but Jesus into believing he did.

Gotta...for your statements about churches...You need to speak of only the Churches that you have dealt with and don't speak of the ones that you've heard about.

 

There is a topic on Athesists on the Evil thread. "God believes in Athesists" was used by me.

 

Paul was special...don't handle any snakes, its not needed to prove anything. It shows freewill and knowledge.

 

A true Christian cannot lose their salvation, people can change if they allow Satan to come into their lives, and they can repent and come back to Christ. "God did not create Man to burn, but to spend eternal life with him".

 

Judas was used to bring the kiss, he repented by giving back the reward and is now in Heaven. Someone had to do it and he showed the least character of the followers...Old testament verse says "I will be betrayed by the one I share this bread with".

Gotta...for your statements about churches...You need to speak of only the Churches that you have dealt with and don't speak of the ones that you've heard about.

 

There is a topic on Athesists on the Evil thread. "God believes in Athesists" was used by me.

 

Paul was special...don't handle any snakes, its not needed to prove anything. It shows freewill and knowledge.

 

A true Christian cannot lose their salvation, people can change if they allow Satan to come into their lives, and they can repent and come back to Christ. "God did not create Man to burn, but to spend eternal life with him".

 

Judas was used to bring the kiss, he repented by giving back the reward and is now in Heaven. Someone had to do it and he showed the least character of the followers...Old testament verse says "I will be betrayed by the one I share this bread with".

 

Can you tell me how you arrived at this conclusion?

 

I don't think we can say one way or another whether Judas was saved or not. That's all speculation, IMO, so forgive me if I'm a little skeptical.

 

But, I do agree with you (obviously) that a true Christian cannot lose their salvation.

Great discussion.

 

To add to it, at any point was Judas saved? The Bible tells us that Satan entered him around the time of the Last Supper. So in all that traveling and listening to Jesus was he ever saved.

 

I personally think that Judas is the disciple that we can learn the most from. I say that in the essence that it is feasible to listen and hear Jesus word and be so very wrong. To, on the outside, do all the right "Christian" things, and be so very wrong.

 

Think about it, he didn't listen to a preacher preach from the Bible but sat and listen to Jesus. He sat and ate with Jesus. He had private conversations with Jesus. And still never got it while all the time fooling all but Jesus into believing he did.

 

:thumb: That's a good point.

 

BTW, you never told me....do you think a person can lose their salvation?

What does Judas being saved have to do with going to church?

Gotta...for your statements about churches...You need to speak of only the Churches that you have dealt with and don't speak of the ones that you've heard about.

 

 

Paul was special...don't handle any snakes, its not needed to prove anything. It shows freewill and knowledge.

 

 

I was referring to the church in general. No specific churches were in mind. Sorry to get you so upset about it. Do you think I was wrong about what the church is, Its purpose and who makes up the church?

 

You are right! Paul was special, all I was saying was that you can build a false doctrine by taking one verse completely out of its context. Such as snake handlers, Waco, Jim Jones, ...do I need to go on ...

:thumb: That's a good point.

 

BTW, you never told me....do you think a person can lose their salvation?

Yes.

Yes.

 

:thumb: Just wondering...I kind of gathered that from your posts, but I didn't want to assume it without knowing for sure.

 

So, my next question would be, can you get it back if you lose it? And, if so, how would you interpret the previously mentioned passage.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Still working on my thesis post on Hebrews 6:4-6

I know what I want to say but I am having a hard time of writing it out where there will be no confusion on what others think about my post. Not that I am trying to wiggle my way out of other posters debating, discussing, and giving their opinion, but some of the post I have made I thought they were pretty thorough but others like to knit pick, so hopefully later on in the day I will post it.

5wide, What do you think it is saying?

Still working on my thesis post on Hebrews 6:4-6

I know what I want to say but I am having a hard time of writing it out where there will be no confusion on what others think about my post. Not that I am trying to wiggle my way out of other posters debating, discussing, and giving their opinion, but some of the post I have made I thought they were pretty thorough but others like to knit pick, so hopefully later on in the day I will post it.

5wide, What do you think it is saying?

 

Might as well get used to that...or quit posting...it doesn't matter how thorough you are. Be prepared to answer follow up questions to further clarify your point. Of course, it wouldn't be much of a debate otherwise.

 

BTW, I'd like to say that I enjoy these religious threads/discussions with fellow believers more than anything else on this site. I always try to be respectful, so I hope no one takes offense to anything I say...I think it's good and beneficial to discuss these things. I've learned a lot from several of you on here. Just wanted to say that so I could clarify that I appreciate you all and think very highly of you, whether my opinions are the same as yours or not. I enjoy hearing opposing views because it either reaffirms what I believe, or changes my mind....either way, I feel like I'm learning and that wouldn't happen without these discussions. :thumb:

 

As for Hebrews 6:4-6 GR, I'll have to take a little time (as you are) to gather my thoughts and try to get them down as best I can on my first post. :thumb: But, I'm anxiously awaiting your thoughts, as I have enjoyed your previous posts.

:thumb: Just wondering...I kind of gathered that from your posts, but I didn't want to assume it without knowing for sure.

 

So, my next question would be, can you get it back if you lose it? And, if so, how would you interpret the previously mentioned passage.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

I am not sure I read into this that it is not possible. I see that they don't have to be rebaptized. I see the parable of the Prodigal Son as a story of a person who had the inheritance, squandered it and then came back after falling away into the open arms of the father.

 

That is my first impression but not at a place right now that I can pull out some Scripture to look at and study.

I am not sure I read into this that it is not possible. I see that they don't have to be rebaptized. I see the parable of the Prodigal Son as a story of a person who had the inheritance, squandered it and then came back after falling away into the open arms of the father.

 

That is my first impression but not at a place right now that I can pull out some Scripture to look at and study.

 

One question on the story of the prodigal son, at any point did the prodigal son ever cease being his father's son?

 

Likewise, when we are saved and born again, I don't think we can ever cease being children of God.

 

What I get from Hebrews 6:4-6 is that our salvation is secure and eternal for two reasons: (1) Once we are saved and have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, it's not possible to turn away from God and suddenly not believe anymore. (2) Theoretically, if it were possible, there would be no further repentance because it would, in essence, re-crucify Christ and that cannot happen as it states elsewhere in Hebrews that His sacrifice was once for all.

Gotta, not "Upset" at all. Your OK.

 

Judas repented and gave the money back. God didn't create man to burn. He sinned because of the choice he made, he realized later what he had caused and was sorry. So much he took his own life.

I agrre alot with GottaRebound.

I agrre alot with GottaRebound.

 

Hello Big Bubba - good to have you on board.

 

 

Frances