February 9, 200719 yr Uh, no. He didn't start the Roman Catholic Church. He started THE Church, simply the body of believers who called upon his name for salvation. The word "catholic" wasn't even used until the beginning of the 2nd century. Unfortunately, most Catholics don't even know what the word means. It's a Greek word that literally translates "according to the whole" or universal. The Catholic Church was meant to encompass all Christians regardless of background. I was raised Baptist and now consider myself a non-denominational protestant. Yet I am still part of the catholic church. The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is just a part of that body, just as the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Protestant denominations are. They did not forfeit their place in the Body just because they split from the RCC. Interesting... The Greek roots of the term "Catholic" mean "according to (kata-) the whole (holos)," or more colloquially, "universal." At the beginning of the second century, we find in the letters of Ignatius the first surviving use of the term "Catholic" in reference to the Church. At that time, or shortly thereafter, it was used to refer to a single, visible communion, separate from others. The term "Catholic" is in the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds, and many Protestants, claiming the term for themselves, give it a meaning that is unsupported historically, ignoring the term’s use at the time the creeds were written. Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: "As regards ‘Catholic,’ its original meaning was 'universal' or 'general.' . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1). Thus people who recite the creeds mentally inserting another meaning for "Catholic" are reinterpreting them according to a modern preference, much as a liberal biblical scholar does with Scripture texts offensive to contemporary sensibilities. Included in the quotes below are extracts from the first creeds to use the term "Catholic"; so that the term can be seen it its historical context, which is supplied by the other quotations. It is from this broader context that the meaning of the term in the creeds is established, not by one’s own notion of what the term once meant or of what it ought to mean.
February 9, 200719 yr Uh, no. He didn't start the Roman Catholic Church. He started THE Church, simply the body of believers who called upon his name for salvation. The word "catholic" wasn't even used until the beginning of the 2nd century. Unfortunately, most Catholics don't even know what the word means. It's a Greek word that literally translates "according to the whole" or universal. The Catholic Church was meant to encompass all Christians regardless of background. I was raised Baptist and now consider myself a non-denominational protestant. Yet I am still part of the catholic church. The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is just a part of that body, just as the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Protestant denominations are. They did not forfeit their place in the Body just because they split from the RCC. Great Post!
February 9, 200719 yr Jesus told the woman at the well, there was coming a time that True Worshippers would worship God in Spirit and in Truth, and such people the Father is looking for. Denominations? Do you really think that God intended it to be this way. Church has became a very confusing thing to many people, The Bible is very clear about the fact that God is not the Author of Confusion. Like I have previously stated I believe in going to church but there is more to it than just sitting in a pew.
February 10, 200719 yr I meant "sunday service" in reference to having to go to some building with a sign on it that says "Church." As far as the bolded part, if the bottom line is Jesus, how does that make the "church" necessary? The question is what are you doing with your time that makes "going to some building with a sign on it that says 'Church'" irrelevant. If you are ministering to the lost, helping the needy, studying the word, worshiping the lord, and gathering with other like believers to accomplish those things, than I would say you are right. If you are sleeping in, working in your yard, watching ESPN, going camping, or anything else that doesn't bring glory to the Lord than I would say you are fooling yourself.
February 10, 200719 yr Author Interesting... Do you have a link for that quote? I would like to read it.
February 10, 200719 yr Author Uh, no. He didn't start the Roman Catholic Church. He started THE Church, simply the body of believers who called upon his name for salvation. The word "catholic" wasn't even used until the beginning of the 2nd century. Unfortunately, most Catholics don't even know what the word means. It's a Greek word that literally translates "according to the whole" or universal. The Catholic Church was meant to encompass all Christians regardless of background. I was raised Baptist and now consider myself a non-denominational protestant. Yet I am still part of the catholic church. The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is just a part of that body, just as the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Protestant denominations are. They did not forfeit their place in the Body just because they split from the RCC. Of course I knew what that interpretation of Catholic is generally accepted as (even though probably untrue, as proved by rockmom). I don't think that that someone who splits from the Catholic church is still a member of the Roman Catholic Church. The word "split" comes from the Middle Dutch word "splitten" meaning to "leave, depart". Now I don't like to get down to semantics, but Jesus started the body of believers, led by Peter, with rules and beliefs from His teachings. To split from that I believe is against His church. But I am not going to get into an argument of this sort, for a couple of reasons. First of all, it is off of the thread topic. Second of all, regretfully, I am not nearly as well-educated in my faith as the rest of you to argue with many of you on this topic (something that I should probably get to doing ). Thirdly, this is an argument that none of will win, which I think is a part of the problem of many Christians today having lost most sense of faith and morals. That's my soapbox speech for the day.
February 10, 200719 yr The word Church is a universal word. It doesn't a certain Church, we have to give Jesus more credit. I get to go tomorrow and we are still looking for a new Preacher.
February 10, 200719 yr Which church would that be...Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Mennonite, Amish, etc...? Of course I have my own opinion, but that does not really matter. Let's look at what Jesus said: Jesus said his church would be "the light of the world." He noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His church will survive until his return and therefore it must be here today. If we wish to locate the church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks of his church. The church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. The church is one (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13). Jesus established only one church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse. His church must teach just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). His church must never change any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, his church can come to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant. The church is holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8). By his grace Jesus makes the church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26). The church is catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10). Jesus’ church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years, Jesus’ church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays his church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The church is apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20). The church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). Early Christian writings show us the first Christians were thoroughly catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the catholic church. No other church can make that claim. The church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the catholic church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.
February 12, 200719 yr Do you have a link for that quote? I would like to read it. What "Catholic" Means Sorry...I forgot to do so...
February 12, 200719 yr What "Catholic" Means Sorry...I forgot to do so... So you're saying if we're not Roman Catholic, we're heretics?
February 12, 200719 yr So you're saying if we're not Roman Catholic, we're heretics? No, just providing the explanation of "Catholic", as I've been taught to believe. You had posted a definition that differed from what I was taught. I actually haven't really said anything in this thread about what I feel.
February 12, 200719 yr Original terms and meanings have changed over the years, just as the original intent for the Democrats and Republicans have changed over the years. You are right that the word Catholic means "Universal" but that word has taken on a different meaning in the last 800 years or so.
February 12, 200719 yr No, just providing the explanation of "Catholic", as I've been taught to believe. You had posted a definition that differed from what I was taught. I actually haven't really said anything in this thread about what I feel. I guess I'll save my indignation for another day. :irked:
February 12, 200719 yr I guess I'll save my indignation for another day. :irked: You do that...you'll be nice and steamed for when that comes.
February 12, 200719 yr You do that...you'll be nice and steamed for when that comes. Send me a PM before you open that valve. I'd hate to see you get badly burned.
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