I'm aware and understand all that. Doesn't change that relying solely on employer sponsored/funded retirement accounts is not a good idea.

It does affect the comparisons to when people in the private sector refer to their retirement changing or similar comparisons. Those individuals opted into those plans.

It does affect the comparisons to when people in the private sector refer to their retirement changing or similar comparisons. Those individuals opted into those plans.

 

Not all of them. Quite a few companies have auto-enrollment.

 

Regardless, I believe my point still remains. No one should be relying solely on employer sponsored/funded retirement accounts.

What companies require you to contribute with no option to unenroll?

So do the teachers. Surely you realize teachers have been offered secure retirement rather than appropriate pay. Good luck maintaining future teachers with fewer benefits and higher expectations.

Again, you guys can claim low pay all you want but when you make the comparison apples to apples it just isn't that far off. Whether teachers want to admit it or not you are being paid on a 185 day (or whatever the number) work year. So to try to compare with jobs that are based on 260 day year just isn't apples to apples. Could they be paid more, sure...I would say most people would make the same claim about their own jobs. Do I think eventually states will have to start raising pay, most likely. No doubt the pension benefit was a huge factor in getting new recruits and if that goes away they will have to off set with higher pay.

What companies require you to contribute with no option to unenroll?

 

No clue. I didn't say they didn't allow you out. Just that they automatically put you in it.

 

I get teacher's aren't happy that their plan is changing. But again, teachers were well aware of the fact that they were going to be forced into a pension plan when they got into the field. I have little sympathy when people complain about things that they're aware of ahead of time. And I get it's changing. It sucks. It's also part of life. It's the main reason that, IMO, pension plans are horrible retirement instruments that I'd avoid at all costs.

That’s what I said it was a very good comparison because you can not opt out. Other companies might auto enroll you but you can opt out. Teachers cannnot. So to me that is not the same.

 

A couple of things I believe that are becoming more clear. Many people in education are not very well educated in retirement planning. The other thing is that those not involved in education do not understand the issues or how it works.

 

People keep bringing up pay. Teachers are not asking for more money. Each district sets their own payscales. The 185 contract is also misunderstood/skewing things. Unless you are part of education in some fashion or form I don’t think people understand that the 185 number is not accurate. It is like saying teachers work 5 1/2 a day. We all know that is not true but the reported hourly wage is based on that figure. Teachers work more than 185 days a year.

Again teachers aren’t just protesting about pension. As my posted stated and I said a number of times in the other thread that was closed. The protesting is also very much about funding schools and programs that assist schools.

 

I just find it a little amusing that the narrative switched to school funding once teachers realized their pensions weren't affected. I'm willing to bet if there wasn't a narrative from certain groups that lawmakers were taking their pensions we wouldn't of had teachers calling in sick and protests at the capital.

I'm aware and understand all that. Doesn't change that relying solely on employer sponsored/funded retirement accounts is not a good idea.

 

A better example for the private sector is we all do not have a choice with paying into Social Security. For you and I the program will surely be different by the time we reach retirement age. Whether that means the FRA being further out or benefit calculated different.

 

Teachers should be thankful they don't have to wait until age 67 to collect their full benefit like the rest of us born 1960 or later.

What companies require you to contribute with no option to unenroll?

 

And in the private sector we have no choice on enrollment with Social Security. I would love to invest that money myself.

I just find it a little amusing that the narrative switched to school funding once teachers realized their pensions weren't affected. I'm willing to bet if there wasn't a narrative from certain groups that lawmakers were taking their pensions we wouldn't of had teachers calling in sick and protests at the capital.

The narrative hasn’t changed. You just haven’t been talking to teachers. People on here have been saying it for over a week that it has been about funding of schools and schools programs. That teachers are not happy about the pension issue but that has never been the only thing. I find it a little amusing people have been ignoring that or that people have been following a narrative put forth by others that this is only about pensions.

 

Yes people don’t have the option for social security (teachers don’t get it or any benefit from it as you’ll remember from the other thread). That wasn’t the comparison brought up. It was stated as if employees in the private sector had to contribute to a retirement through their work. If the original comparison was to SS then that of course is much closer.

How Have Pension Cuts Affected Public Sector Competitiveness? | SLGE

 

One of the central findings is that, especially for new hires, the implementation of pension reform hampered governments’ ability to attract new employees. This is important to note in an environment where governments are experiencing increases in retirements and are competing for talent at a time when unemployment rates, especially for those with college degrees, are relatively low.

 

Well...I'm sure this won't hurt teacher recruitment.

The narrative hasn’t changed. You just haven’t been talking to teachers. People on here have been saying it for over a week that it has been about funding of schools and schools programs. That teachers are not happy about the pension issue but that has never been the only thing. I find it a little amusing people have been ignoring that or that people have been following a narrative put forth by others that this is only about pensions.

 

Yes people don’t have the option for social security (teachers don’t get it or any benefit from it as you’ll remember from the other thread). That wasn’t the comparison brought up. It was stated as if employees in the private sector had to contribute to a retirement through their work. If the original comparison was to SS then that of course is much closer.

 

Exactly. No change in the narrative.

 

Teachers realize we don't work in a vacuum. The action by legislation will affect them in some way. If the budget gets closer to the governor's proposal several school employees will lose their jobs in every district across the state.

 

Pension reform will affect the amount of people retiring and the people entering the profession. Additionally, it will affect the amount of instruction given to students because teachers will now use their sick days rather than "hoard" them. This will double the substitute teacher budget in districts. There probably will not be enough subs. There isn't now, so no way there will be enough in the Spring of 2019.

And then there is the new 2% that districts are required to supplement new teacher 401 plans. Who knows where that money will come from...

 

It doesn't take long to figure out who has to pick up the slack with all of these changes.

Exactly. No change in the narrative.

 

Teachers realize we don't work in a vacuum. The action by legislation will affect them in some way. If the budget gets closer to the governor's proposal several school employees will lose their jobs in every district across the state.

 

Pension reform will affect the amount of people retiring and the people entering the profession. Additionally, it will affect the amount of instruction given to students because teachers will now use their sick days rather than "hoard" them. This will double the substitute teacher budget in districts. There probably will not be enough subs. There isn't now, so no way there will be enough in the Spring of 2019.

And then there is the new 2% that districts are required to supplement new teacher 401 plans. Who knows where that money will come from...

 

It doesn't take long to figure out who has to pick up the slack with all of these changes.

 

You really think teacher's will use their sick days now, even when they aren't sick? People in the private sector never had that benefit and yet the vast majority don't use their sick days. Why would teacher's be different?

That’s what I said it was a very good comparison because you can not opt out. Other companies might auto enroll you but you can opt out. Teachers cannnot. So to me that is not the same. A couple of things I believe that are becoming more clear. Many people in education are not very well educated in retirement planning. The other thing is that those not involved in education do not understand the issues or how it works. People keep bringing up pay. Teachers are not asking for more money. Each district sets their own payscales. The 185 contract is also misunderstood/skewing things. Unless you are part of education in some fashion or form I don’t think people understand that the 185 number is not accurate. It is like saying teachers work 5 1/2 a day. We all know that is not true but the reported hourly wage is based on that figure. Teachers work more than 185 days a year.

It is accurate. That's what is required. You may work more than that but 185 is the number your pay is based on. Mine is 260 but guess what, I work more than that. So teachers aren't unique. You guys keep acting like the rest of the rest of the world wouldn't understand and the fact is most would.

You really think teacher's will use their sick days now, even when they aren't sick? People in the private sector never had that benefit and yet the vast majority don't use their sick days. Why would teacher's be different?

Where do you get the stats to say a vast majority do not? I might be reading your statement wrong. I take your statement to mean a vast majority of people don’t call in sick unless they truly are sick? So a massive flu or some other pandemic hits every year the day after the Super Bowl? During March Madness? A number of companies have just went to PTO so there is no distinction between sick leave and vacation time. If PTO time can not be carried forward I believe you would see an increase of days taken as it gets closer to use or lose time. In the different jobs I have been apart of that has been the trend. If one cannot carry sick leave forward then yes people are more than likely will use those days. Feeling a little under the weather? Sure stay home.

 

Districts encouraged teachers not to use sick days for numerous reasons. Also it is a royal pain to be sick as a teacher due to prep work, falling behind and cleaning up the mess when they return.