The only fact that matters is that Dalton has been a very effective QB in the league especially for this pathetic excuse for a franchise... if you were arguing for a young QB with different skill sets to get a chance, I’d maybe see where you’re coming from... you want McCarron who is a poor man’s Dalton to take over for Dalton... it’s just plain silly...

 

You have zero idea if he is a poor mans Dalton. In 4 games he was very Dalton like stat wise in stats, and arguably made bigger plays in environment we usually don't see Dalton make plays in. He did that without years of experience. So have to assume that would get even better with experience.

My argument for awhile now is Dalton has been more fortunate than most qbs. Most of his career he has had top 10 defense, talent to throw to and a line. Yet only 2 years he did well with it. Yet no games where he performed well in big moments.

 

Put it this way you take Matt Ryan and put him on the teams Dalton has been on and Bengals at least win playoff games and maybe make a run. The talent Dalton has had around him has been more than Ryan has had most of his career. While you put Dalton on those Falcon teams i don't think any chance they make even the super bowl.

 

No way... Ryan has a much better receiver corps and a better line and better running game... and better coaching, etc... Dalton definitely misses Sanu for example...

You have zero idea if he is a poor mans Dalton. In 4 games he was very Dalton like stat wise in stats, and arguably made bigger plays in environment we usually don't see Dalton make plays in. He did that without years of experience. So have to assume that would get even better with experience.

 

Have you seen them side by side in practice? Running the same plays? The same drills? Etc...

 

I have, many many many times... and every time I walked away thinking he was a less talented version of Dalton and that “is what he is”...

 

There’s a reason Dalton went in round 2 and McCarron went in round 5... is it possible that McCarron was overlooked like Tom Brady? Maybe... but luckily for me and those that agree with me... the Bengals and the league as a whole see Dalton as the better QB...

 

Such a shame this trade didn’t happen with the Browns, because it’d have been obvious after McCarron struggled with them just like most QB’s would... he wouldn’t “lift them up” to be a playoff team... they have far too many holes...

No way... Ryan has a much better receiver corps and a better line and better running game... and better coaching, etc... Dalton definitely misses Sanu for example...

 

Eh you are right on receiver core i forgot about the other good receiver they had who now is retired. Line play disagree. Coaching disagree considering his one coach he had was fired. Defensively he has never had much help.

Eh you are right on receiver core i forgot about the other good receiver they had who now is retired. Line play disagree. Coaching disagree considering his one coach he had was fired. Defensively he has never had much help.

 

Doesn’t matter anyway... unless Dalton gets injured... he’s Cincinnati’s QB for at least 4 more seasons imo... maybe more...

Have you seen them side by side in practice? Running the same plays? The same drills? Etc...

 

I have, many many many times... and every time I walked away thinking he was a less talented version of Dalton and that “is what he is”...

 

There’s a reason Dalton went in round 2 and McCarron went in round 5... is it possible that McCarron was overlooked like Tom Brady? Maybe... but luckily for me and those that agree with me... the Bengals and the league as a whole see Dalton as the better QB...

 

Such a shame this trade didn’t happen with the Browns, because it’d have been obvious after McCarron struggled with them just like most QB’s would... he wouldn’t “lift them up” to be a playoff team... they have far too many holes...

 

Actually I have I go to most training camp practices. Also one guy is throwing to Green and other starting receivers in drills, while the other is throwing to guys who don't even make the team. Also game situations are a lot different than practice. Dalton looks good in practice and 1 o'clock games against bad teams in his career. Doesn't mean he has looked good against good teams or games where everyone is watching and players feel a little more pressure. It's sad that McCarron has looked more calm and better in pressure situations against good teams in just 4 games than Dalton has in 7 years in similar situations. How Dalton looks in practice sure doesn't help in out in those situations.

Actually I have I go to most training camp practices. Also one guy is throwing to Green and other starting receivers in drills, while the other is throwing to guys who don't even make the team. Also game situations are a lot different than practice. Dalton looks good in practice and 1 o'clock games against bad teams in his career. Doesn't mean he has looked good against good teams or games where everyone is watching and players feel a little more pressure. It's sad that McCarron has looked more calm and better in pressure situations against good teams in just 4 games than Dalton has in 7 years in similar situations. How Dalton looks in practice sure doesn't help in out in those situations.

 

 

McCarron hasn’t looked better... if he did, he’d be playing... it’s that simple. But you keep dreaming... lol! Wave that McCarron flag... I’m sure it’ll have an impact on the Bengals’ decision.

Doesn’t matter anyway... unless Dalton gets injured... he’s Cincinnati’s QB for at least 4 more seasons imo... maybe more...

 

See just cause I want them to move on. Doesn't mean I think they will. I know the Bengals will stick with him just like they do all veteran players. It's what they do no matter even if someone could be better.

 

So I am going to hope he proves me wrong. However all people have stuff they don't like about the organization. I actually probably been the biggest supporter and backer of them over the last 7 years on here. However I do think they are wrong in keeping him just like they were wrong to keep Lewis. Everyone has stuff they complain about the Bengals on. This is mine.

McCarron hasn’t looked better... if he did, he’d be playing... it’s that simple.

 

No it's not. It's Marvin Lewis. He has proven he will go with guys with more experience every day over a guy with limited sample size in a game. The guy won't even fully go all in on Joe Mixon yet and let's Hill still play. He has never benched a qb in a game. He is not ever going to make a qb change. Once again gets back to being funny when you use Marvin Lewis decision making on who to play to back your argument.

No it's not. It's Marvin Lewis. He has proven he will go with guys with more experience every day over a guy with limited sample size in a game. The guy won't even fully go all in on Joe Mixon yet and let's Hill still play. He has never benched a qb in a game. He is not ever going to make a qb change. Once again gets back to being funny when you use Marvin Lewis decision making on who to play to back your argument.

 

Not using Lewis.. again , I watched all of those games and I saw a QB that isn’t as good as Dalton...

 

But let’s keep talking in circles.. it’s really productive and interesting for all who read these threads.. lol...

 

For the record, do u support Dalton? lol! I don’t think anyone who reads these threads is clear on that... move on please. I said it many posts ago, you’re not bringing anything new to the table... myself and others are also stuck spewing out the same things too... this is a dead topic imo.

Actually I have I go to most training camp practices. Also one guy is throwing to Green and other starting receivers in drills, while the other is throwing to guys who don't even make the team. Also game situations are a lot different than practice. Dalton looks good in practice and 1 o'clock games against bad teams in his career. Doesn't mean he has looked good against good teams or games where everyone is watching and players feel a little more pressure. It's sad that McCarron has looked more calm and better in pressure situations against good teams in just 4 games than Dalton has in 7 years in similar situations. How Dalton looks in practice sure doesn't help in out in those situations.

 

Mccarron took over one of, if not, the most talented bengals team ever. He proceeded to go 2-3 and on the biggest stage, fumbled 3 times and threw an interception.

Not using Lewis.. again , I watched all of those games and I saw a QB that isn’t as good as Dalton...

 

But let’s keep talking in circles.. it’s really productive and interesting for all who read these threads.. lol...

 

For the record, do u support Dalton? lol! I don’t think anyone who reads these threads is clear on that... move on please. I said it many posts ago, you’re not bringing anything new to the table... myself and others are also stuck spewing out the same things too... this is a dead topic imo.

 

I will say this I truly hope Dalton proves me wrong. He is a guy you want to see do well because he is a great guy. With that said even though i want to see him do well. I want to see the Bengals do well even more. I am obviously not a believer in him being that guy who could get us where want to go.

 

With that said I am not an idiot. This line sucks. Even if McCarron played he wouldn't do much better either. With that said the things Dalton has done this year, the bad throws he has made even with time is irritating. I just truly don't believe or trust him to make plays to help us win games against good teams in big moments. 7 years of data does support that fact. I posted those numbers several weeks ago.

 

With that said you are right. We all are basically just saying the same thing. So for now on if I need to vent on Dalton let me get my long post in after the game lol. Then can talk about other stuff. I will even stay out of the end of game thread until after 9 this week. This way we could have the few post they have after wins. Or the normal post we see after losses and examples of those post people say after losses. As we will see all Bengal threads are the same with or without me in it lol.

Mccarron took over one of, if not, the most talented bengals team ever. He proceeded to go 2-3 and on the biggest stage, fumbled 3 times and threw an interception.

 

66 completion percentage 6 tds 2 interceptions. Let's not forget Eifert didn't play in a couple of those games either. In a Monday night game with 2 seed on the line on the road. He jumped out and got this team 2 straight tds to start the game. What is Daltons prime time record again? Dalton as great as he was in 2015 also wad 0 and 2 in prime time in 2015 with a horrible game against the Texans. So chances of us even getting to over time is slim that day with Dalton. The playoff game, in prime time, against the Steelers. All situations Dalton sucks in. So putting all three together in one setting. Means basically zero chance to think Dalton wins that playoff game, especially in the rain.

 

McCarron most of the game didn't play well that day either. However that is the difference I see in the two. It's been very rare if ever where Dalton has started off the game and bad most of the day and with team losing. Has Dalton all of a sudden started to make plays to change the momentum and put them in situation to win. Usually in fact Dalton usually follows suit and continues playing bad. McCarron While playing bad for 3 quarters. In the biggest situation rallied the offense to come all the way back to take the lead. Made big throws to take the lead with a little more than a middle left. He did that in his 4th game ever. Dalton still struggles in these situations against good teams today. Dalton in his second season had a chance to do something similar in the playoffs against Houston. 3 minutes left in the game Bengals driving Green beats his guy deep and Dalton over throws him by three yards in the end zone. McCarron on the other hand in his second season but 4th game ever made that throw that Dalton missed. Dalton then went on in the last drive that day on a 4th and 12 with game on a line threw a 3 yard slant to Marvin Jones. But I'm sure he would learn from that right and know end of game situations better. Yet as we see in his 7th season in two 4th and game situations this year he decides to just throw it away. Then say after the game yeah I messed up.

 

So while McCarron is not a stud. And did have his own mistakes as by the turnovers you listed. He also was only in his 4th game. That should get better with experience. Yet in those 4 games he showed better in similar situations that Dalton has struggled in even with more experience. Hence why I don't trust Dalton to ever be the guy to get them where we want them to get to.

Your good. I enjoy hearing others opinions. I understand people have other opinions and they share theres and I share back.

 

Some people who may not have been back on the site back then. May not know I was actually one of Daltons biggest supporters on here. Me and someone else use to get in big arguments about him. I use to talk about how his career path was similar to Brees. I use to talk about how it's way to early to judge him fairly. Quite honestly and this seems weird it wasn't until after the 2014 season and in the pro bowl that i changed my opinion on him. Watching him and other qbs in that game. Other qbs even with no chemistry with wrs looked good. He goes in there and looks terrible. He even got booed by pro bowl fans that day.

 

Then in 2015 I thought he was proving me wrong. He had a good line, good skill guys, good backs and was having a great year. Yet even with all that he still had same struggles as similar situations in the past. The offense did nothing in a win against the Steelers where they only scored 17 points. The Bengals then play a prime time game against the Texans and he doesn't play well and only scored 10 points. Then lose the next week to the Cardinals on prime time too. He had everything around him offensively but still same struggles in biggest games when all eyes on him.

 

So no I have lost all trust in him being a guy who can get us to win big games in big moments no matter what is around him or who coaches. I think it's a problem that basically everyone seems to admit he needs everything around him to be perfect to look good. He needs a good line, good backs, good receivers. He has been blessed with more talent around him in his first 7 years than most qbs. It's sad imo we need better players to make him better. When imo a good qb helps make his teammates better. I don't know if anyone can say Dalton makes others around him better or even at least look better.

 

I'm not trying to be "good". I'm not trying to be "right" or prove someone else is "wrong". (And yes, I was around when you were on the other side of the argument several years ago.) All I'm saying is what everything looks like to me.

 

Case in point, the three games you mentioned from 2015. They win against Pittsburgh. A win! Yay! We should be celebrating. But, no, you say that the offense did nothing. Move on to the following week against Houston. They lose I think 10-6. Things to be disappointed about? Sure. Defense plays great. Offense struggles. Overall trend, or isolated case of playing a good opponent the week after a huge win over your arch rival? I don't know. I'll even give you that week. Next game we lose to the Cardinals. Only this time the Bengals score 31 points. But because the game is in "prime time" the loss is pinned on Dalton...not the defense that gave up 34 points, including back-to-back-to-back pass completions by Palmer to move the ball down the field 50-60 yards in less than a minute with no timeouts. The same way you feel a team should win if they hold their opponent to 10 points the week before...is the same way you should feel if your team scores 31 points in the game this week, you should win.

 

It's a team game. You need guys to perform on both sides of the ball. Some weeks certain guys are going to have a bad game or a bad play at an inopportune time. Like I said before, you just hope that as a team, you are able to overcome them.

I'm not trying to be "good". I'm not trying to be "right" or prove someone else is "wrong". (And yes, I was around when you were on the other side of the argument several years ago.) All I'm saying is what everything looks like to me.

 

Case in point, the three games you mentioned from 2015. They win against Pittsburgh. A win! Yay! We should be celebrating. But, no, you say that the offense did nothing. Move on to the following week against Houston. They lose I think 10-6. Things to be disappointed about? Sure. Defense plays great. Offense struggles. Overall trend, or isolated case of playing a good opponent the week after a huge win over your arch rival? I don't know. I'll even give you that week. Next game we lose to the Cardinals. Only this time the Bengals score 31 points. But because the game is in "prime time" the loss is pinned on Dalton...not the defense that gave up 34 points, including back-to-back-to-back pass completions by Palmer to move the ball down the field 50-60 yards in less than a minute with no timeouts. The same way you feel a team should win if they hold their opponent to 10 points the week before...is the same way you should feel if your team scores 31 points in the game this week, you should win.

 

It's a team game. You need guys to perform on both sides of the ball. Some weeks certain guys are going to have a bad game or a bad play at an inopportune time. Like I said before, you just hope that as a team, you are able to overcome them.

 

Fair enough. You have made better points on this than most.

 

Basically people can pick and choose from both sides on this discussion. At the end of the day I don't trust him to be the guy to get us over the top. In playoffs you can have a lot of stuff right around you but come big games your qb has to make some plays to help you win. Or help change the momentum when things start going south. Dalton hasn't shown that. McCarron in 4 games showed to handle those similar situations better and with less experience. You need your qb to make plays in those games.

 

Even the 49ers when they had a great defense needed Colin Kaepernick to make plays for them to win in the playoffs and he did. Which if he didn't they don't make the nfc championship one year and the super bowl the next because in those playoffs that great defense didn't play as well.

 

Qbs in those moments need to make the plays when they are there. Dalton doesn't make them. And when things start going south in a game. We rarely if ever see him make a play to help change that momentum. I just can't trust a qb who has been like that for 7 years to all of a sudden change and be a guy who would make those plays.