Jimmy Carter gets the blame for Iran, but in reality, much of that was because he was the first guy to get hit with problems from that country.

 

Ronald Reagan didn't have a great deal of success in that area, either ... Iran was at the centerpiece of his administration's biggest scandal, persuading us to trade arms for hostages.

 

We continue to have problems with Iran today, so it isn't like anyone else has been able to clean up the mess, either.

Carter is a good man.

 

Carter was one of the most inept Presidents of modern times.

Immediately after the faild attempt he should have tried again. Instead he just tucked his tail and IMVHO gave the impression that the US was not willing to fight.

As Hatz said, the hostages were moved around and separated into groups after the failed raid. Another one would never have had a chance to rescue all of them.

Immediately after the faild attempt he should have tried again. Instead he just tucked his tail and IMVHO gave the impression that the US was not willing to fight.

 

 

Like Westsider said, and I pointed out, the hostages were scattered after that and taken out of the embassy area.

 

BTW, does anyone remember the events that led up to all of this?

 

The Shah of Iran (dictator if you will) was propped up by the US for decades with help from our CIA and military. He squashed Islamic Fundamentalism and deported the Ayatolah to Paris. When a religious Fundamental revival swept the nation Khomeni returned and the Shah fled to the United States. We would not turn him back over to the Iranians for trial (the man was dying of cancer) and no one could foresee that the movement Khomeni orchestrated would take over the embassy.

 

I tend to think that a fight or war with Iran would have been difficult for us at that time. We were post Vietnam in our military and probably did not have the firepower to go to the other side of the world and fight a country as large as Iran. (Note I didn't say powerful, they weren't. But as we have found out in Iraq, it's one thing to defeat a military, quite another to replace a government and change a people.)

Not meaning to thread jack but, I hear a lot about if Carter had done this or that differently. I'm seriously asking what else he could or should have done during the Iranian hostage crisis.

 

Here's what he did do:

 

1. He froze all Iranian assets in this country and everywhere else he could.

 

2. In April of that year he launched a raid to get the hostages but everything fell apart from the helicopters catching fire, to equipment malfunctions and the result was a disaster that cost American servicemen their lives. Now this wasn't a successful attempt but it was an attempt and early enough to when they felt the conditions were right to get the Americans out.

 

3. After the failed rescue attempt the hostages were spread out over Teheran and another such mission would not have gotten them out alive.

 

4. Carter negotiated the rest of the way and almost had them free in September/October but the Iranians pulled away from the table.

 

5. All the hostages came home alive in January when Reagan took office.

 

 

A lot has been made about doing something different than Bush and no one coming up with solutions for Iraq. I'm just curious if anyone has a different solution than Carter had that eventually got the hostages home alive.

A member of my family is such a starch Democrat, he believes the Republicans conspired withe Iranians to pull away from the table in Sept/Oct so to guarantee them the Presidential election in November.

As Hatz said, the hostages were moved around and separated into groups after the failed raid. Another one would never have had a chance to rescue all of them.

"The Unit" could have.

 

Great tv show if you haven't checked it out.

A member of my family is such a starch Democrat, he believes the Republicans conspired withe Iranians to pull away from the table in Sept/Oct so to guarantee them the Presidential election in November.

 

 

Actually there has long been a question in Carter's memoirs and speculation that Casey and George Bush did bascially just that. It was one of those "October Surprises." The fear in Reagan's camp was that if the hostages were released in October before the election that might be the ticket to turn it around for Carter. Carter said that in September and October the Iranians were close to making a deal concerning their assets and then backed away. The speculation was that Casey offered them better terms if they waited for Reagan.

 

Now Reagan had the image of the Cowboy and at his core was a deep conviction like John Wayne. But his handlers weren't so ideal driven. Some have speculated it was the beginning of the relationship that would lead to the arms for hostages and Iran/Contra scandal in Reagan's second term.

 

I'm not paranoid enough to believe all of that but I have thought that if the hostage crisis had been solved prior to that November the election would have been a lot closer than it turned out to be. In the end the economy sunk Carter as much as the Hostage Crisis.

Man, I hope Mr. Bush has a nice surprise for us this month...

Man, I hope Mr. Bush has a nice surprise for us this month...

 

 

He might because Foley certainly wasn't what he had in mind.

2. In April of that year he launched a raid to get the hostages but everything fell apart from the helicopters catching fire, to equipment malfunctions and the result was a disaster that cost American servicemen their lives. Now this wasn't a successful attempt but it was an attempt and early enough to when they felt the conditions were right to get the Americans out.

For the record, there were no helicopter fires. Crews from my squadron, HMH-461, flew Navy RH-53's (Super Stalliions). One developed hydraulic problems, two got lost in a sandstorm. At Desert One, one of the RH-53's collided with a C-130 on the ground. I lost 3 friends among the 8 that died in the collision. The other 5 were Air Force crew of the C-130.

 

I guess if you count the subsequent fire from the collision, there was a fire.

For the record, there were no helicopter fires. Crews from my squadron, HMH-461, flew Navy RH-53's (Super Stalliions). One developed hydraulic problems, two got lost in a sandstorm. At Desert One, one of the RH-53's collided with a C-130 on the ground. I lost 3 friends among the 8 that died in the collision. The other 5 were Air Force crew of the C-130.

Never knew you were this close to what happened. Thanks for serving and thanks to your son for continuing on the tradition.

Amen, now I know I have to buy you lunch Dad. :thumb:

For the record, there were no helicopter fires. Crews from my squadron, HMH-461, flew Navy RH-53's (Super Stalliions). One developed hydraulic problems, two got lost in a sandstorm. At Desert One, one of the RH-53's collided with a C-130 on the ground. I lost 3 friends among the 8 that died in the collision. The other 5 were Air Force crew of the C-130.

 

I guess if you count the subsequent fire from the collision, there was a fire.

 

 

That's the fire that I remembered in my mind HHS. Thanks. :thumb:

 

What I remember most was how it was a microcosm of the Carter presidency. It wasn't one thing that went wrong, it was a combination of things that came together to make the situation worse.

Better clarify that I wasn't part of the mission. I just knew the guys that were.

That's the fire that I remembered in my mind HHS. Thanks. :thumb:

 

What I remember most was how it was a microcosm of the Carter presidency. It wasn't one thing that went wrong, it was a combination of things that came together to make the situation worse.

Good analogy Hatz. I don't blame Carter for the failure of the rescue mission, but it does seem so typical of his presidency.