So all the addicts that have told me otherwise over many years are lying. Got it.

 

Correct. Although, I wouldn't say lying. I'd say have no clue.

 

I'd take the word of the professional EMTs & Nurses that see this on a daily basis in our hospitals over that of the addicts you've spoken to.

 

Or if you'd prefer, we could use this exact quote from Just Believe Recovery Center:

 

"Overdoses may occur for several reasons. One, heroin is illicit and unregulated, so it is not often possible to know the actually purity (potency) of the drug. It is fairly unpredictable.

 

Also, the heroin may be laced (combined) with another drug. Fentanyl is common. Fentanyl is also a synthetic opioid, but many times more powerful than heroin. It can easily be fatal on its own accord. When mixed with heroin, the effects can multiply drastically.

 

Finally, multiple drug intoxication also increases the risk of overdose. For example, drinking alcohol or taking other depressants can also amplify the effects of all substances in question. Consequently, heroin kills because it slows down the central nervous system, including respiration, to a fatal degree."

 

How Does a Heroin Overdose Kill You? | Just Believe Recovery Center

 

They don't even reference ODs happening because of the amount of heroin used. But you can choose to be ill-informed, instead of realize FKYW and I are right. Chances are, the addicts you speak to over the years don't even know what caused their OD and assume the common misperception.

The idea of introducing another legalized additive drug is just plain wrong.

And when treatment is needed you ask society to pay for the treatment is crazy. I'm tired of paying for bad decisions.

 

This isn't a judgment on your statement. I've begun to wonder the same thing about our dependency issues as well. (and for the record, my gluttony is chief number one in health issues killing me)

 

I just saw this article and found it not too far of your thoughts (probably) and my inquisitive Hmmm.

 

A council member’s solution to his Ohio city’s overdose problem: Let addicts die

Correct. Although, I wouldn't say lying. I'd say have no clue.

 

I'd take the word of the professional EMTs & Nurses that see this on a daily basis in our hospitals over that of the addicts you've spoken to.

 

Or if you'd prefer, we could use this exact quote from Just Believe Recovery Center:

 

"Overdoses may occur for several reasons. One, heroin is illicit and unregulated, so it is not often possible to know the actually purity (potency) of the drug. It is fairly unpredictable.

 

Also, the heroin may be laced (combined) with another drug. Fentanyl is common. Fentanyl is also a synthetic opioid, but many times more powerful than heroin. It can easily be fatal on its own accord. When mixed with heroin, the effects can multiply drastically.

 

Finally, multiple drug intoxication also increases the risk of overdose. For example, drinking alcohol or taking other depressants can also amplify the effects of all substances in question. Consequently, heroin kills because it slows down the central nervous system, including respiration, to a fatal degree."

 

How Does a Heroin Overdose Kill You? | Just Believe Recovery Center

 

They don't even reference ODs happening because of the amount of heroin used. But you can choose to be ill-informed, instead of realize FKYW and I are right. Chances are, the addicts you speak to over the years don't even know what caused their OD and assume the common misperception.

 

Holding up hand as a professional paramedic.

 

Doesnt matter. Your mind is made up.

False? Not quite.

 

When a user is no longer getting high from their current dose, they increase the dose to obtain their high. That is a fact. Many times they use too much, that is a fact.

 

So now explain to me how any of that is blatantly false.

 

This

 

I don't.

 

Overdoses are based on increased use by the user. If they aren't getting high from the same amount they did last week, they up the amount they are using. This is when most overdoses occur. They have the need to keep getting high and their tolerance builds over time to where they need a larger dose than prior uses.

Holding up hand as a professional paramedic.

 

Doesnt matter. Your mind is made up.

 

And you take your knowledge on overdoses from addicts instead of providing a source that says FKYW or I are wrong?

 

No one is denying that the amount of heroin can cause overdoses. However, you claim that most overdoses occur from it and that's just not true.

I have read where one time OD's are occurring by taking too much is when an addict comes out of rehab and relapses. They try to take as much they were doing before going into rehab and there body is not used to it, therefore overdosing on the higher amount. But who know's.

Holding up hand as a professional paramedic.

 

Doesnt matter. Your mind is made up.

 

So if an EMT disagrees with your statement and agrees with MJ's does their opinion on the matter not count? Let me know. I know a few who would dispute your opinion.

 

 

Nevermind. Doesn't matter. Your mind is made up.

So if an EMT disagrees with your statement and agrees with MJ's does their opinion on the matter not count? Let me know. I know a few who would dispute your opinion.

 

 

Nevermind. Doesn't matter. Your mind is made up.

 

How many addicts with overdoses have you treated in the last 10 years?

 

There have been a rash of OD's lately that can be contributed to heroin laced with fentanyl, no doubt. What about the other opioid OD's? Are those because of fentanyl laced heroin or because they used a greater amount than needed to get high and OD'd?

And you take your knowledge on overdoses from addicts instead of providing a source that says FKYW or I are wrong?

 

No one is denying that the amount of heroin can cause overdoses. However, you claim that most overdoses occur from it and that's just not true.

 

Heroin Overdose

 

From the article:

 

Overdose occurs when a person uses more than the recommended dosage of a particular substance. Many times heroin overdose occurs after a period of abstinence from the drug but this is not always the case. Even a person who is currently an active heroin addict is subject to overdose. Combining other drugs with heroin is also a common cause of overdose.

@capt278

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2016/12/22/heroin-is-now-the-leading-cause-of-overdose-deaths-in-the-u-s/#70361c7e2668

 

There's some highlights in there and a link to a detailed CDC report.

According to this heroin treatment website, 1% of heroin/morphine overdose deaths are due to increased usage and the remaining from mixing the drugs with other drugs or alcohol.

 

Heroin Overdose

 

Heroin overdose is one of the worst dangers of heroin addiction. The primary effect of heroin is respiratory depression. If too much heroin is ingested, breathing will stop all together and the user will suffocate. Even those who have used heroin for years can overdose when they mix the wrong drugs, or they use too much or relapse after being abstinent. When someone uses a drug like heroin a lot, the body builds up a tolerance. This means that the body becomes used to the effects that the drug has on it. As the body becomes used to the drug, it takes higher and higher doses of heroin to get the same effects as before. Even those who have a high tolerance and do nothing to alter their regular use can die of an overdose. In fact, about 1 percent of all heroin addicts die of an overdose in this way each year. A heroin overdose may result in serious, harmful symptoms or even death. In the case of heroin abuse, overdoses are even more likely than with other drugs. It is easy to understand why, once you consider that there is no way to determine the exact content or purity of the drug being purchased. Basically, an individual buying heroin on the street has no idea what they are getting. In the case of heroin addiction, despite the terrible price exacted by the drug in the long run, heroin use becomes necessary just for the body.

 

The single most common cause of heroin sudden death is bad interaction from combining heroin with other central nervous system depressants-especially alcohol . Heroin deaths can happen when a person that is drunk ingests a relatively small amount of heroin. Heroin should never be used with alcohol, this cannot be overstated. Another often deadly heroin drug combinations and is the speedball. A speedball is the combination of heroin and cocaine. Speedballs are dangerous, but the harm caused by them seems to be due primarily to the cocaine. Cocaine increases blood pressure and can cause heart-attacks.

I can't speak from first hand knowledge, but my wife is a resident physician here in Louisville, my brother is a respiratory therapist in a Cincinnati emergency room, and my sister-in-law is a pharmacist in a Northern Kentucky hospital. They all have seen a lot of overdose cases. Just on Sunday my brother said it's probably been 4 months since he worked a shift that didn't have an overdose patient come into the ER. From their firsthand knowledge and the drug treatment training they have been taught through their professions, they all see the root of overdoses being split essentially 50/50 between a user's tolerance and increased dosage, and drug impurities/additives and inconsistency in drug purity.

 

Heroin is a downer, and as with many downers, the user does develop a tolerance with repeated use. For that reason many users will increase the dosage they use...which can lead to overdose.

 

The exponential increase in heroin use has also pushed demand for production, which has led to rampant adulteration in the drug manufacturing process. In an attempt to "stretch" the amount of product they can sell, dealers sometimes will cut heroin with things like corn starch, powdered milk, or even sugar...all of which more-or-less weaken the effect of the drug. Other inexpensive cutting agents like crushed over-the-counter painkillers, quinine, and strychnine (used in rat poison) are used to try to stretch the drug volume while still bringing about some kind of additional drug effect. These can often lead to overdoses. Then there are also cases of cutting with fentanyl (a stronger and synthetically produced opioid) in an attempt to boost the heroin's effectiveness. Fentanyl lacing has increased significantly over the last 3 or 4 years, and has created an even more significant increase in overdosing.

 

One other significant factor in overdosing (that I haven't seen specifically mentioned yet) is the increased popularity in black tar heroin, which is a less refined version of heroin, and is significantly different from the type of heroin that was more commonly distributed in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Black tar is a form of heroin that has not been through the entire process of purification. It's faster to produce, which makes it cheaper, and it contains a markedly higher number of dangerous impurities. Black tar heroin is more common than "traditional" heroin in many areas, and tends to be specifically more common in urban areas - particularly in areas that have significant Hispanic populations, due to the fact that is is primarily being manufactured in Latin American countries, versus the primarily middle-eastern and Asian manufacture of "traditional" heroin. Black tar heroin is highly inconsistent, and if it is used repeatedly over any significant period of time, the drug users almost always end up overdosing at some time or other.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR

It's entirely possible that in one area overdoses are primarily caused by drug users getting tolerant and upping the amounts they use, while in other areas (like the more "big city" areas surrounding Louisville and Cincinnati) overdoses are more frequently caused by the impurities and crudity of the actual heroin that drug users are abusing.

How many addicts with overdoses have you treated in the last 10 years?

 

There have been a rash of OD's lately that can be contributed to heroin laced with fentanyl, no doubt. What about the other opioid OD's? Are those because of fentanyl laced heroin or because they used a greater amount than needed to get high and OD'd?

 

The next one I treat will be my first.

 

The first sentence of your second paragraph has been the main point people have been saying that you appeared to disagree with. They didn't make HB 333 because people are ingesting too much heroin. They made it because too many people were dying because it was laced with too much fetanyl. More often than not when we someone ODs there are usually more to follow because they all got their stuff from the same dealer. I'd say there are tons of people who have overdosed on heroin and other opioids because they took much but when you hear the stories about 10+ people headed to the hospital of overdosing over the course of a 48 hour period it is easy to see what happened.

Saying that most overdoses happen because of the increased amount they're ingestimg is just factually innacurate and I am surprised someone in the field would stand fast to that arguement but whatever. No point in continuing.

Apparently there is a really strong batch of heroin working it's way thought the Ashland area this weekend. On Friday there were around 10 overdoses in a few hours including one death, with 4 other deaths within the past week.

 

While coming home from watching my friends band play last night he wanted to stop by McDonalds to grab something to eat. The car in front of us was just past the order window but not moving, we ordered and went around them and noticed that the driver was passed out. Got to the drive thru payment window and told them that the guy was passed out and they needed to call 911. I went to check on the guy, gave him a sternum rub but no response, he did have a faint pulse though. Police were there within a minute and at that point I was told I could go on home. The girl at McDonalds said that was the second time that had happened in their drive thru in the same day. That's crazy.