I was going to respond to @The Professor in another thread, but before I knew it, just like always, I had WAY too much to say, and thought that I'd start another thread just for kicks to see if anyone else has ever had any involvement with Amway, be it yourself, or friends or family members that you closely know who have had their experiences with it.

 

Though I would never do anything like that ever again, I must admit that I find the topic incredibly interesting.

 

At times for amusement, I'll eavesdrop via Facebook on people who were involved 25 years ago who still are today. While a few appear to have reached a certain level of success with it, others sadly are still singing the song that they're so close to something happening.

 

By the way they present themselves you can tell that they've long turned themselves completely over to the world of Amway, and they're so far gone that they will never come back down to earth. Their recycled cloned way of speaking is enough to make me want to puke.

 

**************************************************************************

 

I hear ya @The Professor, and one of the most valuable things that I learned from my 1 year experience with Amway was to stay away from it. Any beneficial things that I did learn while participating, I could have learned elsewhere, such as reading a good book on success principals.

 

My initial involvement was comprised of elements of skepticism mixed with cautious belief, self-awareness of the indoctrinating effect it was having on me, ultimately giving way to intently observing the overall racket of brainwashing, and of the cultish techniques and behavior that I was witnessing on a daily basis that continued to reveal itself inch by inch.

 

While participating I secretly kept myself a comfortable distance away from completely surrendering to it, but felt sorry for the many that I saw get full-blown sucked into it.

 

I gave myself a one year deadline with it, but didn't quit so much because I wasn't getting anywhere as much as the complete realization that it was an absolute dangerous avenue to take with my life, not to mention the eventual realization that the brainwashing that I was being subjected to by design would ultimately give way to the torch being passed to me to be the brainwasher, which I just didn't feel in good conscience I could do.

 

Also, initially you're given the impression that it's something that you can do in your spare time to ultimately realizing that to even possibly make it work you would have to allow it to completely consume your whole existence. These people were square, dull, cloned zombies enough as it was that there was no way that I could do this to my life.

 

Many might say that it certainly wouldn't take them as long as it took me to figure out that it is all a ridiculous farce, or that they wouldn't even get involved in the first place, and while I certainly get that, I personally felt that I had benefitted from an inside first hand look at it to fully understand just what it was all about to make a decision about it based on a true understanding and experience with it.

 

It also made me more aware of detecting the signs of others who have more up their sleeve when priming you for whatever they're intending to try to suck you into.

 

For example, a couple of years ago I had a man who was a Mason use what felt like canned rehearsed comments with me while having a casual out-of-the-blue conversation with me in passing at the grocery store. It smelled just like Amway, but in fact he was seemingly trying to encourage me to take interest in being a Mason.

 

In Covington the huge Masonic center just happens to be next door to Kroger, and he said that he was headed to a meeting there, and I said that of all the years that I've lived in Covington I've never been inside of the place, which prompted him to give me a tour of it while also introducing me to various other members, as well as the grand poobah.

 

I dug seeing the inside of the place, and it was interesting as it was weird, and time and again throughout the tour he repeatedly kept reminding me that if I ever wanted to be a Mason, all I had to do was ask a member.

 

I thanked him for the tour while not showing him any outward signs of my reservations, and then quickly scatted on out of there shaking my head saying "Oh brother".

 

He was obviously using a certain technique to try to make you feel like you were welcome into some exclusive club while trying to stroke your ego, much like the way Amway people do when trying to suck you into their nonsense.

 

Since I really don't know much about the Masons, without my experience in Amway I can't say for certain that he wouldn't have succeeded with creating an interest with me, but because his approach felt all to eerily familiar, I could immediately read it.

I went to a huge meeting once, probably 40 years ago or so. There must have been 500 people in there and I thought, this ain't what I thought it would be. I was under the impression I was going to a meeting with 6-7 others.

 

If they mislead up front, then they probably were not an organization I could trust.

Amway=Ponzi Scheme You don't make money selling their products. You make it by convincing others to sell it for you.

I was going to respond to @The Professor in another thread, but before I knew it, just like always, I had WAY too much to say, and thought that I'd start another thread just for kicks to see if anyone else has ever had any involvement with Amway, be it yourself, or friends or family members that you closely know who have had their experiences with it.

 

Though I would never do anything like that ever again, I must admit that I find the topic incredibly interesting.

 

At times for amusement, I'll eavesdrop via Facebook on people who were involved 25 years ago who still are today. While a few appear to have reached a certain level of success with it, others sadly are still singing the song that they're so close to something happening.

 

By the way they present themselves you can tell that they've long turned themselves completely over to the world of Amway, and they're so far gone that they will never come back down to earth. Their recycled cloned way of speaking is enough to make me want to puke.

 

**************************************************************************

 

I hear ya @The Professor, and one of the most valuable things that I learned from my 1 year experience with Amway was to stay away from it. Any beneficial things that I did learn while participating, I could have learned elsewhere, such as reading a good book on success principals.

 

My initial involvement was comprised of elements of skepticism mixed with cautious belief, self-awareness of the indoctrinating effect it was having on me, ultimately giving way to intently observing the overall racket of brainwashing, and of the cultish techniques and behavior that I was witnessing on a daily basis that continued to reveal itself inch by inch.

 

While participating I secretly kept myself a comfortable distance away from completely surrendering to it, but felt sorry for the many that I saw get full-blown sucked into it.

 

I gave myself a one year deadline with it, but didn't quit so much because I wasn't getting anywhere as much as the complete realization that it was an absolute dangerous avenue to take with my life, not to mention the eventual realization that the brainwashing that I was being subjected to by design would ultimately give way to the torch being passed to me to be the brainwasher, which I just didn't feel in good conscience I could do.

 

Also, initially you're given the impression that it's something that you can do in your spare time to ultimately realizing that to even possibly make it work you would have to allow it to completely consume your whole existence. These people were square, dull, cloned zombies enough as it was that there was no way that I could do this to my life.

 

Many might say that it certainly wouldn't take them as long as it took me to figure out that it is all a ridiculous farce, or that they wouldn't even get involved in the first place, and while I certainly get that, I personally felt that I had benefitted from an inside first hand look at it to fully understand just what it was all about to make a decision about it based on a true understanding and experience with it.

 

It also made me more aware of detecting the signs of others who have more up their sleeve when priming you for whatever they're intending to try to suck you into.

 

For example, a couple of years ago I had a man who was a Mason use what felt like canned rehearsed comments with me while having a casual out-of-the-blue conversation with me in passing at the grocery store. It smelled just like Amway, but in fact he was seemingly trying to encourage me to take interest in being a Mason.

 

In Covington the huge Masonic center just happens to be next door to Kroger, and he said that he was headed to a meeting there, and I said that of all the years that I've lived in Covington I've never been inside of the place, which prompted him to give me a tour of it while also introducing me to various other members, as well as the grand poobah.

 

I dug seeing the inside of the place, and it was interesting as it was weird, and time and again throughout the tour he repeatedly kept reminding me that if I ever wanted to be a Mason, all I had to do was ask a member.

 

I thanked him for the tour while not showing him any outward signs of my reservations, and then quickly scatted on out of there shaking my head saying "Oh brother".

 

He was obviously using a certain technique to try to make you feel like you were welcome into some exclusive club while trying to stroke your ego, much like the way Amway people do when trying to suck you into their nonsense.

 

Since I really don't know much about the Masons, without my experience in Amway I can't say for certain that he wouldn't have succeeded with creating an interest with me, but because his approach felt all to eerily familiar, I could immediately read it.

 

Preach it brother :lol2:

I emboldened some of the key words that is a definite fit for their organization. I once went to a meeting in Evansville, Indiana that my brother talked me into attending. We met in Lexington and a big group traveled by charter bus to Louisville and got on another charter bus that took us to Evansville. On the way to our destination we watched Amway videos. Finally got to the meeting and there were hundreds of people there, maybe over a thousand. One of the main men who was big in Amway, a former NFL football player from Florida, was there as the speaker. The first thing I noticed about everyone is how they seemed programmed. Everyone had the same smiles and talked about Amway endlessly, strangers meeting strangers as if they had known each other for years. Everyone had brief cases or leather folders. I felt as if I was in a cult. I thought about that experience on the way back home and knew then that I wasn't going to stay in that nonsense very long.

They can call it whatever they want (multi-level marketing, if memory serves me correctly) but it's nothing more than a pyramid scheme. A whole bunch of unfortunates at the bottom making money for minute amount of people at the top. I think Mary Kay cosmetics operates pretty much the same way.

I went to a huge meeting once, probably 40 years ago or so. There must have been 500 people in there and I thought, this ain't what I thought it would be. I was under the impression I was going to a meeting with 6-7 others.

 

If they mislead up front, then they probably were not an organization I could trust.

 

Preach it brother :lol2:

I emboldened some of the key words that is a definite fit for their organization. I once went to a meeting in Evansville, Indiana that my brother talked me into attending. We met in Lexington and a big group traveled by charter bus to Louisville and got on another charter bus that took us to Evansville. On the way to our destination we watched Amway videos. Finally got to the meeting and there were hundreds of people there, maybe over a thousand. One of the main men who was big in Amway, a former NFL football player from Florida, was there as the speaker. The first thing I noticed about everyone is how they seemed programmed. Everyone had the same smiles and talked about Amway endlessly, strangers meeting strangers as if they had known each other for years. Everyone had brief cases or leather folders. I felt as if I was in a cult. I thought about that experience on the way back home and knew then that I wasn't going to stay in that nonsense very long.

They can call it whatever they want (multi-level marketing, if memory serves me correctly) but it's nothing more than a pyramid scheme. A whole bunch of unfortunates at the bottom making money for minute amount of people at the top. I think Mary Kay cosmetics operates pretty much the same way.

 

They do indeed very much mislead up front, starting while prospecting you with rehearsed out-of-the-blue casual so-called regular friendly in passing conversation while inflating your ego, and slipping in little hints that they're an entrepreneur into some profitable projects with other professionals, while putting you at ease with topics of common interests with hopes that you divulge things about yourself as if you're both establishing some sort of foundation for a friendship leading to them trying to encourage an exchange of contact information for either friendly and/or networking reasons so they have a way to call you back a few days later to say...

 

..."Hey Bob this is Greg, it was great chatting you the other day while having lunch, I don't know if you recall me saying anything about my entrepreneurial endeavors, but you seem like a really sharp guy, and my business parters and I are looking to expand in the area, and we were wondering if you'd be interested in meeting with us so that we could let you in on what we're putting together, that is of course if you're a motivated guy open to making some extra money"...

 

Next step:

 

Greg meets back up with you one on one never uttering the word Amway, but touting that the marketing that he and his partners are involved with is in relationship to multiple Fortune 500 companies (which technically outside of Amway core products they do in fact have the ability to funnel products from many other companies, none of which are at any true savings to anyone).

 

When you begin to quiz Greg about what exactly he's talking about he informs you that their meetings are designed to fully explain everything and answer any questions you might have.

 

If you show signs of skepticism Greg will play with you with a little game of takeaway commenting that perhaps you're really not what they might be looking for with the hopes of hitting your ego making you want to prove that you are.

 

When you agree to attend a meeting they remind you beforehand that it's a suit and tie affair (to make it sound all professional), but like he's doing you a favor so that you don't feel out of place amongst some heavy hitters.

 

Next step:

 

You attend a meeting held in a hotel meeting room (that members weekly pay for and are expected to attend if they stand a chance of getting any quality time from their upline) where hundreds of people attend, and one guy delivers to the guests a rehearsed colorful lighthearted presentation explaining the general workings of the business making it appear promising and something that you could be successful at in a short time in pretty much your spare time (5-10 hours a week), while pumping up your dreams of being successful, and edifying those who have been, and introducing you to other members while patting each other on the back for how well they've done, and how you look like you'd be a perfect fit to join them in their success. Welcome to our family of winners where truly maybe two people in the entire room has ever made any real money at this.

 

At this meeting they purposely hold back on informing you of the mountains of further involvement (time and money) that the business entails later justifying after they have you excited about starting, that most people would run from it if they knew, but once you fully understand what you have your hands on you'd be thanking them for not telling you too much and scaring you away. because little by little it won't seem like too much involvement if your dreams are big enough, and you start to realize that you have found the means to make your dreams come true.

 

Little by little you start realizing that everyday of your life is being consumed by Amway, and so is your wallet. Every little thing that you're advised to do keeps piling up while being reminded that to have your "successful" upline take you seriously and help show credibility to your potential prospects you will participate 100% in everything.

 

-Sunday night team calls where you teach newbies how to phone prospects, and what lines of bull to hand them.

 

-Monday night hotel meetings tempting new prospects.

 

-After hotel meeting night owl sessions at a Denny's lasting 'til 1:00 in the morning to socialize with members, and hear words of encouragement, and to separate you from your family and friends who do not approve or understand what you're involved in, and to convince you to stay away from their negativity until the only people in your life are your fake friends within the business who won't have anything to do with you unless you show signs of productivity.

 

-Everyday listening to voicemails of higher ups trying to motivate you on your special costly Amway voicemail service.

 

-Everyday listening to tapes that you bought in the tape of the week club to keep you motivated by higher up telling their success stories.

 

-Buying additional tapes to lend to prospects and newbies to temp and motivate them.

 

-Everyday listening to training tapes related to various angles of the business.

 

-Buying from your upline and reading numerous success principal books.

 

-Monthly regional weekend seminars held in high school sized auditoriums with special guests telling success stories.

 

-Quarterly entire weekend intensive arena style out of town functions where you travel by bus, and cram up 4 to a room in only recommended costly hotels, and discouraged to go it alone even if you were to find a cheaper hotel.

 

-Tons of sleep deprivation where tons of patriotism and christianity is used to work on your emotions to fully pull you in to make it feel like the business is your whole life, and you're happy about that.

 

-Unifying cultish like night time candle light ceremonies after a long Saturday to work on your emotions.

 

-Right winged political rhetoric to get everyone on the same political page.

 

-Sunday morning Christian hyped up services where people are being saved left and right, and others of different religions, though they are given the opportunity to unite in one out of view room for one service to satisfy all their other religions, are made to feel on the outside until they give in to be unified with the whole group, and just convert to Christianity. My Jewish upline-direct did just that.

 

-Buying every product that you use in your everyday life from Amway though it's expensive, to set an example to your downline how much you believe in the business and the products. The logic is that "You should buy from your own business".

 

-Searching for prospects on a daily basis and staying in touch with your own downline to keep them motivated, and getting together with them to train them how to prospect people out in public.

 

So yeah...you are very much mislead, but while you're being brainwashed you'll come to understand that you're doing other people a big favor by only revealing little by little all that the business entails, because hey, you've offered them the best business opportunity in the whole world. It's called behavioral conditioning, and in other words cultish brainwashing. They'll certainly thank you later for not scaring them off too early before they had the chance to see for themselves what a wonderful business it is.

^

You've nailed it perfectly.

No.

 

Had a co-worker back in the day that was a double diamond or a cubic zirconia or some such title. He and his wife came to the house to give us a sales pitch, but it wasn't for us.

^

You've nailed it perfectly.

 

How long was your brother involved with it, and about how long ago was this? I've no doubt that the premise is now essentially the same as it was when I was in it 25 years ago with some changes with the arrival of the internet.

 

Was he seriously ate up with it, and if so did he experience any psychological withdrawal when he quit? After being so wrapped up where it becomes people's lives and they're fully brainwashed, they tend to suffer with feelings of depression and believe like the business has warned them, that they are losers and failures if they quit.

 

There'd be times at meetings where you'd start to notice when it's been awhile since you seen this or that person, and it would always be hush hush because it was pretty much a no-no to discuss anyone quitting for fear that it would poison the group. Still if there were whispers the narrative would always be something to do with so and so's dream not being big enough, or what a loser they were

 

Do you recall if he was in the Bill Britt or the Dexter Yager system?

 

The big arena functions felt a lot like what you would see with TV evangelist. The whole wholesome Christian Republican thing was on full display with leaders like Bill Britt and Paul Miller touting how wonderful Amway was for Christian married couples, then Bill Britt ended up getting caught sleeping around on his wife, and Paul Miller divorced his wife to marry his secretary who he'd been fooling around with behind his wife's back. Bill Britt has since passed away.

 

Truth was that the people making the serious bucks were higher ups who were reaping from tool sales (tapes, videos, books) and getting paid to speak at functions more than they were reaping from products sales. Apparently awhile back Bill Britt was sued in relationship to the whole tool business thing and how it was misleading to people that the big whigs were making tons of money from product sales.

I love me a good pyramid scheme. So silly.

 

Any of you folks ever heard of Yoli?

Never! Did get suckered into having lunch with a guy who had a great opportunity for me. Would never use the A word.

How long was your brother involved with it, and about how long ago was this? I've no doubt that the premise is now essentially the same as it was when I was in it 25 years ago with some changes with the arrival of the internet.

 

Was he seriously ate up with it, and if so did he experience any psychological withdrawal when he quit? After being so wrapped up where it becomes people's lives and they're fully brainwashed, they tend to suffer with feelings of depression and believe like the business has warned them, that they are losers and failures if they quit.

 

There'd be times at meetings where you'd start to notice when it's been awhile since you seen this or that person, and it would always be hush hush because it was pretty much a no-no to discuss anyone quitting for fear that it would poison the group. Still if there were whispers the narrative would always be something to do with so and so's dream not being big enough, or what a loser they were

 

Do you recall if he was in the Bill Britt or the Dexter Yager system?

 

The big arena functions felt a lot like what you would see with TV evangelist. The whole wholesome Christian Republican thing was on full display with leaders like Bill Britt and Paul Miller touting how wonderful Amway was for Christian married couples, then Bill Britt ended up getting caught sleeping around on his wife, and Paul Miller divorced his wife to marry his secretary who he'd been fooling around with behind his wife's back. Bill Britt has since passed away.

 

Truth was that the people making the serious bucks were higher ups who were reaping from tool sales (tapes, videos, books) and getting paid to speak at functions more than they were reaping from products sales. Apparently awhile back Bill Britt was sued in relationship to the whole tool business thing and how it was misleading to people that the big whigs were making tons of money from product sales.

 

My brother was in Amway for about 12-15 years, not exactly sure but somewhere around that time span. He got into it pretty deep, traveling to Chicago and other large cities for big events. He had a job that kept him on the road quite a bit and he didn't have the time to do what they probably pushed him to do. He doesn't talk about it much these days but I think he didn't do well with it, maybe even losing money.

Regardless, he got wrapped up in it and became friends with others in the network. He bought the tapes by the dozens and listened to them while he was driving his work truck. He even tried to put on a few of their presentations but quit because they were always trying to coach him on how to do it. Everything is structured and programmed, as is the people involved. I went to some of the smaller meetings with him in homes and one big one in Evansville. The ones in the homes were identical in every aspect. The guy would start out and get about 20 minutes into the meeting and start taking off his tie and jacket and say, "Heck, why don't we all just get comfortable". I was at 3 different meetings and they all did that routine. Then he would show a menu in a fancy restaurant and say, "Would you like to dine here and not worry about the price at the end of the choice....Amway will set you up to be able to do that." They'd show fancy sports cars and mansion homes and tell us that those could be ours with minimal effort. The last home meeting I went to with my brother I listened to the presentation (by that time I could have probably made it myself) and later, while everyone was standing around talking in little groups, I started questioning the presenter with some very skeptical questions (you've seen enough of my posts on here to know I'm a very skeptical person to begin with). He immediately tuned me out, wouldn't even make eye contact with me when I continued talking. So I stood there to see what he'd do next and he got the other two people who were in our conversation group and said something like, "Come over here, I want to show you something". :lol2: I guess he X'd me off his list right then and there. I never asked my brother about it but I'm sure he told him to not listen to me because I was negative and some people "just don't get it".

 

Amway is a scam. It's a pyramid scheme and they somehow get around the illegal part of it with some high paid attorneys that have come up with something called multi-level marketing. But anyway you shake their tree there's a whole lot of poor slobs at the bottom and middle of the pyramid making money for an extreme few individuals at the top.

Nowadays it's ItWorks! or Vemma or LipSense. Went to a meeting as a favor to my friend who wasn't sure if anyone would show up. It was sold really well, almost a religious experience, but when something seems too good to be true, I typically run the other way.

 

My girlfriend at the time wasn't so fortunate. She's probably still sitting on those magical energy drinks.

I've got a friend from college who is hook line and sinker in Thrive by Level. From afar he seems to be doing really well, but he did get in very early. It's the product where you put a patch on your skin and it's supposed to everything from providing energy and vitamins to helping you lose weight. The stuff is ridiculously expensive and has no proven benefit but he swears by it. In the end it's a MLM like any other. Some folks do really well, but most don't.

My brother was in Amway for about 12-15 years, not exactly sure but somewhere around that time span. He got into it pretty deep, traveling to Chicago and other large cities for big events. He had a job that kept him on the road quite a bit and he didn't have the time to do what they probably pushed him to do. He doesn't talk about it much these days but I think he didn't do well with it, maybe even losing money.

Regardless, he got wrapped up in it and became friends with others in the network. He bought the tapes by the dozens and listened to them while he was driving his work truck. He even tried to put on a few of their presentations but quit because they were always trying to coach him on how to do it. Everything is structured and programmed, as is the people involved. I went to some of the smaller meetings with him in homes and one big one in Evansville. The ones in the homes were identical in every aspect. The guy would start out and get about 20 minutes into the meeting and start taking off his tie and jacket and say, "Heck, why don't we all just get comfortable". I was at 3 different meetings and they all did that routine. Then he would show a menu in a fancy restaurant and say, "Would you like to dine here and not worry about the price at the end of the choice....Amway will set you up to be able to do that." They'd show fancy sports cars and mansion homes and tell us that those could be ours with minimal effort. The last home meeting I went to with my brother I listened to the presentation (by that time I could have probably made it myself) and later, while everyone was standing around talking in little groups, I started questioning the presenter with some very skeptical questions (you've seen enough of my posts on here to know I'm a very skeptical person to begin with). He immediately tuned me out, wouldn't even make eye contact with me when I continued talking. So I stood there to see what he'd do next and he got the other two people who were in our conversation group and said something like, "Come over here, I want to show you something". :lol2: I guess he X'd me off his list right then and there. I never asked my brother about it but I'm sure he told him to not listen to me because I was negative and some people "just don't get it".

 

Amway is a scam. It's a pyramid scheme and they somehow get around the illegal part of it with some high paid attorneys that have come up with something called multi-level marketing. But anyway you shake their tree there's a whole lot of poor slobs at the bottom and middle of the pyramid making money for an extreme few individuals at the top.

 

Wow 12-15 years, he was in deep, wasn't he?

 

I feel sorry for you and him. No doubt in my mind that he has suffered withdrawal, and still might to some degree. That's a lot of years to get all of that programming out of your system.

 

I'm sure that win or lose, good or bad, he'd tell you that he learned a lot from his experience, and without throwing the baby out with the bath water, there truly are things about success principals that can be learned through the process, yet like I said in my initial post those things can also be learned elsewhere minus all the other mind controlling baggage.

 

Problem is while people are in Amway they start believing the myth that it was only through Amway that they could've ever learned the beneficial things that they have.

 

Aside from the things that they can learn, it can also give some people a wake up call that whatever financial problems they've become complacent about as a no win death sentence, that with motivation, goals, determination, and a sound plan to shoot for that their future is truly in their own hands if they commit themselves to sticking to it, and knowing the effective ways to stay positively motivated to stick with the plan for the long haul.

 

One of the biggest pitfalls with Amway outside of all the other aforementioned downsides is the frustration that no matter how motivated you are, your success is never ending related to how motivated you can encourage others to become, and while you expire so much energy on your downline they come in and out of the business like through a revolving door.

 

The motive behind the Amway system using so many cultish techniques is to try to psychologically lock people in with hopes that they don't leave, and if so not too soon. The ones who have stuck around a long time and did manage to become successful have seen their own downline constantly change in personnel nonstop.

 

They can never truly retire like they say because they must stay on top of their people indefinitely to make sure all they've built up doesn't fall apart. Thing is by the time they're happily brainwashed they don't really mind, and they no longer notice that the people that they're around everyday in their lives are brainwashed clones because they're one of them too.

 

The ones that have stuck around a long time, but didn't become successful, while still believing that one day they will, really do so because now it's become their whole lives and social existence that they don't have any friends outside of the business anymore, and have trouble relating to them even if they do. Nobody understands them except for those within the business, so they fear an emptiness in life if they were to quit, not to mention the withdrawal and inner feelings of failure that are a result of the cultish programming they've been subjected to for so long.

 

When folks can leave the business behind, but utilize the principals that they've learned, and not rely on so many others for their own success they can actually become successful when what they're aiming for is more realistic.

 

Hopefully that last sentence defines your brother, and that he has managed to get over it, yet take what he has learned to aim for more worthy and realistic goals.