I doubt it

 

I agree with you. It's wishful thinking on my part mostly. IMO, those folks know they can be saved by narcan so they don't really fear dying. I know that's not the case for everyone, but I know for a fact it is with some.

Generally, no. As I understand it, authorities can't prove what was in the person's bloodstream unless they agree to a toxicology screening. @Beechwoodfan might be able to speak a little more knowledgeably, but I believe most of the OD patients tend to come to and then walk out of the hospital shortly thereafter AMA without much of anything being done.

 

IMO it is not only a waste of taxpayer time and money, it shows true ignorance about the heroin epidemic. An addict will steal the rings off of his/her grandmother's fingers for a fix. They sure as heck don't care about paying a fine. I don't buy the keeping track of addicts and getting them help theory. There are plenty of addicts looking for help that can't find it.

 

If you want to help addicts, open more rehab/detox beds, and fund research into new ways of fighting this.

IMO it is not only a waste of taxpayer time and money, it shows true ignorance about the heroin epidemic. An addict will steal the rings off of his/her grandmother's fingers for a fix. They sure as heck don't care about paying a fine. I don't buy the keeping track of addicts and getting them help theory. There are plenty of addicts looking for help that can't find it.

 

If you want to help addicts, open more rehab/detox beds, and fund research into new ways of fighting this.

 

One thing I wonder about is whether or not the added misdemeanor charge would get an addict into the court system when they otherwise wouldn't be. Maybe one of the resident BGP barristers or law enforcement officers would be able to verify, but if it gets someone into the court system, then I wonder if that might not enable a judge to assign court-ordered evaluation and/or treatment. @Getslow @theguru

IMO it is not only a waste of taxpayer time and money, it shows true ignorance about the heroin epidemic. An addict will steal the rings off of his/her grandmother's fingers for a fix. They sure as heck don't care about paying a fine. I don't buy the keeping track of addicts and getting them help theory. There are plenty of addicts looking for help that can't find it.

 

If you want to help addicts, open more rehab/detox beds, and fund research into new ways of fighting this.

 

 

This.

I agree with you. It's wishful thinking on my part mostly. IMO, those folks know they can be saved by narcan so they don't really fear dying. I know that's not the case for everyone, but I know for a fact it is with some.

$1,000 charge every time you are saved with Narcan. Take if out of their tax return if they can't pay it.

$1,000 charge every time you are saved with Narcan. Take if out of their tax return if they can't pay it.

 

Unfortunately, most addicts do not have meaningful employment, which makes it unlikely they file a tax return, much less get a refund.

I'm with Deuce. Get rid of the narcan and make dying a real possibility for those who OD.

 

Will it stop many? Nope, probably not. Will it stop some? I'd imagine it will.

 

Will more people die? Most likely, but you flirt with death too many times, you're bound to get bit.

I'm with Deuce. Get rid of the narcan and make dying a real possibility for those who OD.

 

Will it stop many? Nope, probably not. Will it stop some? I'd imagine it will.

 

Will more people die? Most likely, but you flirt with death too many times, you're bound to get bit.

 

Cant have that, its the drugs fault remember.

I have no idea, just spit-balling here, but how about anyone revived with Narcan is "forced" to spend 30 days in a treatment center, hospital, or program of some type that can help them.

 

I know the arguments are cost and availability but what is the alternative?

 

And on a side topic, if anyone is ever ODing and anyone else fails to call for medical help that person should be charged with a felony.

 

When people get deep into drug use they normally have no where to turn because all their friends, family, and loved ones are usually fed up by this point and refuse to help because they see it as enabling the behavior and/or have had enough of the lies, theft, craziness, etc. My point is, the system is all most of these people have and it is our duty to keep coming up with new ways to help until we find some solutions.

I have no idea, just spit-balling here, but how about anyone revived with Narcan is "forced" to spend 30 days in a treatment center, hospital, or program of some type that can help them.

 

I know the arguments are cost and availability but what is the alternative?

 

And on a side topic, if anyone is ever ODing and anyone else fails to call for medical help that person should be charged with a felony.

 

When people get deep into drug use they normally have no where to turn because all their friends, family, and loved ones are usually fed up by this point and refuse to help because they see it as enabling the behavior and/or have had enough of the lies, theft, craziness, etc. My point is, the system is all most of these people have and it is our duty to keep coming up with new ways to help until we find some solutions.

 

Who is paying for that?

I have no idea, just spit-balling here, but how about anyone revived with Narcan is "forced" to spend 30 days in a treatment center, hospital, or program of some type that can help them.

 

I know the arguments are cost and availability but what is the alternative?

 

And on a side topic, if anyone is ever ODing and anyone else fails to call for medical help that person should be charged with a felony.

 

When people get deep into drug use they normally have no where to turn because all their friends, family, and loved ones are usually fed up by this point and refuse to help because they see it as enabling the behavior and/or have had enough of the lies, theft, craziness, etc. My point is, the system is all most of these people have and it is our duty to keep coming up with new ways to help until we find some solutions.

 

Very good points. Spit balling back at you...the only way the law will know if Narcan is used if there is an officer at the scene (which there often is). Health professionals are bound by HIPPA. Requiring health care people to report Narcan use is a big legal quagmire. I don't see that happening.

 

I am all for court ordered rehab, because it is does offer help to those in the system. You may know the answer to this, because I do not, but how many resources are available for court mandated rehab?

 

I do know that people who voluntarily want rehab have few choices and long waiting lists unless they have good insurance and/or lots of money.

One thing I wonder about is whether or not the added misdemeanor charge would get an addict into the court system when they otherwise wouldn't be. Maybe one of the resident BGP barristers or law enforcement officers would be able to verify, but if it gets someone into the court system, then I wonder if that might not enable a judge to assign court-ordered evaluation and/or treatment. @Getslow @theguru

 

In Jefferson County, we already have scores of folks court-ordered to treatment that can't get it because there aren't enough spots to go around. Without a whole lot more money being thrown at treatment, I don't know how they're going to get it. And that's without going into how effective it is. Unless you really want it, it's bee my experience that it very rarely takes.

Adult Drug Court

Kentucky Drug Court: Saving Costs, Saving Lives

Getting them into the "System" may allow them access to Drug Court. I'm sure there are some cases where it hasn't worked well or where judges haven't fully supported it. But in the areas where it has been embraced it has been very successful.

Very good points. Spit balling back at you...the only way the law will know if Narcan is used if there is an officer at the scene (which there often is). Health professionals are bound by HIPPA. Requiring health care people to report Narcan use is a big legal quagmire. I don't see that happening.

 

I am all for court ordered rehab, because it is does offer help to those in the system. You may know the answer to this, because I do not, but how many resources are available for court mandated rehab?

 

I do know that people who voluntarily want rehab have few choices and long waiting lists unless they have good insurance and/or lots of money.

 

I am too long in the tooth to know about rehab options.

 

One point I do want to make, in my 20 year law enforcement career I cannot think of a single instance where the 'Health Professionals' beat the Police Officers to the scene of any emergency. My point here is we the Police know when Narcan is used and we don't need anyone to violate HIPPA to tell us anything. We watch it happen.

 

On tangent, sometimes I think HIPPA laws are actually counter-productive to some individuals long term health.

IMO it is not only a waste of taxpayer time and money, it shows true ignorance about the heroin epidemic. An addict will steal the rings off of his/her grandmother's fingers for a fix. They sure as heck don't care about paying a fine. I don't buy the keeping track of addicts and getting them help theory. There are plenty of addicts looking for help that can't find it.

 

If you want to help addicts, open more rehab/detox beds, and fund research into new ways of fighting this.

 

That's a great idea and likely the best option. The problem is most people say "not in my neighborhood" when talk of opening rehab facilities begins. This just recently happened in Ashland when a doctor wanted to open a rather large facility on the southern end of downtown near Central Park. The problem was the adjoining neighborhood mostly consists of 500,000+ houses, with a few million dollar homes. The treatment center would actually be on a main road still inside the business district, but walk a block south and there are old mansions. The building it would have went in was the old junior college that has been vacant for years now and there would have been a full restoration of the building. Anyway it went to vote and the consensus was that Ashland is open to having a treatment center, just not there. I guess if they stick it in the ghetto it's okay, but at that point the people needing treatment could literally walk out the front door and get their dope in a couple of minutes.