Those who are insistent on continuing to further the myth that homosexuality is a choice and a sin, and try to use religion to justify their backward opinions even seemingly with love and sympathy, clearly display that they are blind to fact that homosexuality is a scientific reality, and blind to the steady positive advancements this country and world has experienced regarding equal rights and human dignity for all, and also blind to the centuries of complete stark closeted suffocation and discrimination that millions of homosexuals had to endure living in fear of just about everything regarding trying to live freely and honestly about who they are knowing that if exposed they could lose their jobs, friends, and family support, could be jailed, experience shock treatment or chemical castration, falsely viewed as a sexual deviant or psychologically demented, be subjected to gay bashing that often was celebrated, encouraged, or went overlooked in a society all fueled by ignorant religious rhetoric that helped justify this endless vulgar mass display of hateful discrimination and societal brain washing.

 

If you don't truly understand or have forgotten this ugly history and pass it off as no big deal, they you seriously might want to spend some of the time you spend trying to convince others to deem it a sin, and educate yourself about just how difficult it was to be gay in our culture and just what helped to fuel a huge portion of that hatred and misunderstanding.

 

By continuing to hold on to such misguided myths and not stepping back for a second to digest sensible reality, whether you know it or not no matter how peaceful you consider yourself to be, or think that you have good intentions, you are helping to perpetrate hatred, misunderstanding and a false justification for discrimination.

 

If you think for one minute that all of the hard fought ground gained for equality in the last 47 years since the Stonewall Riots is going anywhere but forward you really need to think again. The most peaceful passive understanding, even Jesus-like compassionate displaying loving type people that I have ever known were homosexuals that spent years living under the suffocating oppression of a mean spirited hateful culture that used religion to back up their awful oppressive actions displayed in the most un-Jesus-like hypocritical pathetic unsympathetic fashion that screamed of mindless evil beyond words.

 

Years ago when gays could only gather in the shadows, society used that as a way to describe them as deviants and perverts, but seemed to not understand that the shadows were the only options for them BECAUSE OF SOCIETY, even when gays themselves longed to just live ordinary lives freely loving who they loved open in the real world. Gays were forced into the shadows and then made to feel like social deviants, when most of them were raised in regular everyday families to begin with.

 

Again, the perpetration of false myth only aims at shoving gays back into the shadows, and you might want to take notice that it's not about to ever happen again.

 

Gays can now live with dignity and align themselves with living in the real world and truly being who they are without feeling like they have to go off into hiding to live their lives. That in itself makes for them being way more well adjusted contributors to society, not to mention just downright happy, and seriously what it wrong with that?

 

Good God Almighty please get a firm grip of reality, and perhaps it's time to seek out another cause, because the one that you obviously appear to be obsessed with is gravely misguided and serves only to continue forwarding misinformation that only leads to hatred and discrimination.

 

I realize that it causes you tremendous internal friction when understanding reality and your religious beliefs conflict, but your answer for love and understanding has been right with you all along, right there within your own teachings.

 

What would Jesus do?

 

I didn't know the guy, but from what I gather about what's been taught about him, I'm not too certain that his biggest mission in life above all else was to make sure that others deemed homosexuality a sin. If all that has been taught about him is true, then it appears that he had bigger eggs to fry.

 

Excellent post, of course.

Agreed.

 

The interaction Jesus had with the adulterous woman in John 8 is a clinic for Christians regarding how we are to "speak the truth in love." Jesus perfectly balanced those two things in that story, and the vast majority of Christians (myself included) tend to lean more toward one over the other.

 

Those who lean too heavily on the truth side will place more emphasis on "go now and leave your life of sin."

 

Those who lean too heavily on the love side will place more emphasis on "neither do I condemn you."

 

Jesus exhibited both, though. Truth and love together.

 

This is the truth. Well said.

Those who are insistent on continuing to further the myth that homosexuality is a choice and a sin

With all due respect I do not think you have the authority to decide what is a sin and what is not. I do not have the authority either. I just read the Bible and use it as a resource.

 

 

 

the suffocating oppression of a mean spirited hateful culture that used religion to back up their awful oppressive actions displayed in the most un-Jesus-like hypocritical pathetic unsympathetic fashion that screamed of mindless evil beyond words.

 

 

Again, the perpetration of false myth only aims at shoving gays back into the shadows, and you might want to take notice that it's not about to ever happen again.

I didn't know the guy, but from what I gather about what's been taught about him, I'm not too certain that his biggest mission in life above all else was to make sure that others deemed homosexuality a sin. If all that has been taught about him is true, then it appears that he had bigger eggs to fry.

 

I trust this is just a general reaction to the topic itself and not a reaction to the actual link in the beginning. The list of five things seems to be very positive and gentle. Not suffocating, awful, or pathetic.

 

Also if you say

"What would Jesus do? I didn't know the guy"

then I do not think you could use the adjective "un-Jesus-like."

 

I'm surprised you are upset in this thread. I would have thought you would appreciate a Christian (like myself) trying to present a message of gentleness and not hate.

I don't think it really matters, we are all going to find out one day sooner or later. Let's just try to make the best of it and quit pushing the insistence of this and that on people.

Like the pushing the insistence of this on kids.

LGBT Crowd Eyes Preschool Children | Fox News

I hate this topic. It's virtually impossible to debate without offending.

I simply thought the list was endearing and gentle. I just wanted to share it.

With all due respect I do not think you have the authority to decide what is a sin and what is not. I do not have the authority either. I just read the Bible and use it as a resource.

 

 

 

 

 

I trust this is just a general reaction to the topic itself and not a reaction to the actual link in the beginning. The list of five things seems to be very positive and gentle. Not suffocating, awful, or pathetic.

 

Also if you say then I do not think you could use the adjective "un-Jesus-like."

 

I'm surprised you are upset in this thread. I would have thought you would appreciate a Christian (like myself) trying to present a message of gentleness and not hate.

 

I will not mince words so hear this loud and clear.

 

Regarding having the authority to decide what is a sin in my life, YES I most certainly do as I completely know who I am, and it's MY life.

 

It's not MAN-MADE religion's right or authority to decide for me, or anyone what is right or wrong, and religion has for centuries had the delusional idea that it can, and somehow its misguided followers continue to fall for it.

 

I've no time for religion's inch by inch slow understanding of reality. It remains stuck in complete myth and will not unclutch it's delusional fanatical views in the face of sound true reality.

 

The modern approach of religion now is to try to meet the topic half way with fake compassion while it continues to try to deem it wrong.

 

I've no time for that, and seriously you can shove it. I know that might be a shock when you consider yourself to be approaching it lovingly, but anyone who continues to expire their energies perpetrating myths regarding other peoples' sexual orientations and laying moral judgement on them while trying to hide behind and justify it with MAN-MADE writings and beliefs has a lot of nerve.

 

I know under no uncertain terms that with no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my sexual orientation is not wrong, and neither is me acting on it. To suggest as much by using some MAN-MADE religious no doubt societal effected measuring stick of morality is completely ridiculous.

 

For me, the few times in my life that I went against my true nature to try to appease to society and religion by experimenting with heterosexuality to see if I could is when I've considered my sexual conduct to be sorely in the wrong when knowing that I had zero attraction towards the women involved. I felt nothing towards them and that was unfair to them as well as it was to myself for not living within my truth.

 

When I know for certain that it has been religion's slow to budge or change in understanding reality while being the basis for why for centuries so many people have been oppressed, I WILL NOT meet it half way. The end of that nonsense is long overdue, and I've no time to invest waiting for it to wake up.

 

Religion really ought to take a good look at itself and recognize the damage that it has done and offer an apology, but it never seems to be willing to do that because that would require admitting to themselves and everyone else that they are wrong.

 

Why should I have to negotiate my life and my reality with those who I know with certainty have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about?

 

Even though I had been subjected to religion's brain washing for the majority of my childhood even by the age of 15 it was completely apparent to me that religion and society were misguided.

 

It is not an opinion that I have a sexual orientation that has me being attracted to my same sex as this is a fact and is a truth, and it is not an opinion that religion has gravely misinformed its followers with untruths to deem such a truth and reality as being wrong. This is perfectly clear to me without question.

 

TRUTH is TRUTH and does not require a BELIEF. When one must believe then they are uncertain of the truth.

One can spin anything a number of ways to make it line up with what you want to be true. Now if you do not believe the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, then this might not mean anything to you. Or maybe you know just enough to think you know what it says, either way that does not change what is Truth. If you take the Bible as a whole, and not let your feelings get in the way, take the whole scripture and study it this is your answer plain and simple:

 

I Never Knew You

 

 

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

My answer PLAIN and SIMPLE evolves from a TRUTH within REALITY.

 

For those who understand the simplicity of TRUTH within REALITY no explanation is necessary.

 

For those who don't... here's a more detailed explanation...

 

No Man-Made CONCEPTS to DISRUPT, CONFUSE, or DISTORT a CLEAR UNDERSTANDING of REALITY.

 

NO SPIN because it is simple TRUTH based on nothing but the TRUTH.

 

Being a TRUTH within REALITY it cannot even be considered an OPINION, therefore NOTHING TO SPIN.

 

A natural sexual orientation is not an OPINION, BELIEF, or DECISION. It is a TRUTH and a REALITY.

 

Nothing that I speak of is based on BELIEF.

 

When the TRUTH is CERTAIN no FAITH in a BELIEF is necessary.

 

TRUTH is simply TRUTH, and is certain evidence of TRUTH without question.

 

Is there a dimension beyond our human experience as living beings on this planet that awaits us after death?

 

I do not know.

 

Me not knowing does not prove that there isn't.

 

Me thinking that there is does not prove that there is.

 

If I happen to believe that there is, I still can't escape that it is a "BELIEF", that I cannot claim as certain TRUTH.

 

If there is another dimension, though we have no way of knowing, but hypothetically let's suppose that there is, what we are certain of is that we cannot be certain that other humans have ever known with so much certainty enough to put into writing just what that other dimension is, and that those writings are anything other than Man's interpretation of that other dimension that they have no way of knowing anything about.

 

If those writings conflict with TRUTH and REALITY I cannot view them as anything but Man-Made CONCEPTS that require a BELIEF that is not based on REALITY or TRUTH.

 

Humans throughout time,... time and again... in their understandable quest for the TRUTH have CREATED CONCEPTS to satisfy their desire to know the TRUTH.

 

CREATED CONCEPTS do not automatically equate to TRUTH, and when TRUTH trumps CONCEPTS, the CONCEPTS cannot be seen as anything but CONCEPTS void of TRUTH.

 

I. CAN. SAY. with CERTAINTY, with no OPINION necessary, that any biblical writings that claim that a natural homosexual is wrong for consensually engaging in sexual intimacy with another, is nothing more than an Man-Made OPINION and a CREATED CONCEPT that ignores TRUTH and REALITY, therefore without question, I can completely disregard it, and know with certainty that those writings are incorrect. Not from my belief, but certainty from knowing, with certainty... THE. TRUTH.

 

Does denouncing those biblical writings denounce another dimension?

 

It does not, and in REALITY, being completely TRUTHFUL with myself, I have no way of knowing one way or another and I'm willing to admit that.

 

I do however know with COMPLETE CERTAINTY THAT I AM GAY and there's no reason at all for me to "BELIEVE" that there is anything wrong with that as I know it is the TRUTH, and that it is REAITY, and anything to the contrary is nothing more than Man-Made misguided CONCEPTS, BELIEFS, and OPINIONS.

 

 

On the other hand, your "plain and simple truth" springs from a "belief" that the ancient Man-Made Writings that you follow, though you have no way of providing evidence that they are anything but Man-Made Writings, present to you the truth.

 

You cannot say with certainty that it is the TRUTH, but you can say with certainty that you BELIEVE it to be.

 

Therefore because it is a "BELIEF" and an "OPINION" it is subject to the SPIN of which you speak.

 

I can say with certainty, with no BELIEF, OPINION, or SPIN necessary, that those writings regarding homosexuality are with NO DOUBT... NOT. THE. TRUTH.

 

It doesn't take a genius to know bull crap when he smells it.

 

TRUTH is, is that religion for centuries has been the major culprit behind promoting discrimination and hatred of homosexuals. It disregards TRUTH and REALITY for the sake of harmfully perpetrating an OPINION. This OPINION is a SPIN on REALITY and TRUTH.

 

So SPIN ON all you believers in FALSEHOODS and Man-Made CONCEPTS as you continue to promote the distortion of TRUTH and REALITY, and as a result remain the perpetrators of hatred and discrimination even within your fake diluted compassionate approach. It might make you feel vindicated and fine to think that you have love in your heart, but at the end of the day you are still just pushing diluted beliefs that sticks your nose where it ought not to be, and offers nothing but to cripple or interfere with the freedoms and truths of others.

Like the pushing the insistence of this on kids.

LGBT Crowd Eyes Preschool Children | Fox News

 

Perhaps society was better off when we allowed stuff like this...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltDZWQKNrCA

I will not mince words so hear this loud and clear.

 

Regarding having the authority to decide what is a sin in my life, YES I most certainly do as I completely know who I am, and it's MY life.

 

It's not MAN-MADE religion's right or authority to decide for me, or anyone what is right or wrong, and religion has for centuries had the delusional idea that it can, and somehow its misguided followers continue to fall for it.

 

I've no time for religion's inch by inch slow understanding of reality. It remains stuck in complete myth and will not unclutch it's delusional fanatical views in the face of sound true reality.

 

The modern approach of religion now is to try to meet the topic half way with fake compassion while it continues to try to deem it wrong.

 

I've no time for that, and seriously you can shove it. I know that might be a shock when you consider yourself to be approaching it lovingly, but anyone who continues to expire their energies perpetrating myths regarding other peoples' sexual orientations and laying moral judgement on them while trying to hide behind and justify it with MAN-MADE writings and beliefs has a lot of nerve.

 

I know under no uncertain terms that with no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my sexual orientation is not wrong, and neither is me acting on it. To suggest as much by using some MAN-MADE religious no doubt societal effected measuring stick of morality is completely ridiculous.

 

For me, the few times in my life that I went against my true nature to try to appease to society and religion by experimenting with heterosexuality to see if I could is when I've considered my sexual conduct to be sorely in the wrong when knowing that I had zero attraction towards the women involved. I felt nothing towards them and that was unfair to them as well as it was to myself for not living within my truth.

 

When I know for certain that it has been religion's slow to budge or change in understanding reality while being the basis for why for centuries so many people have been oppressed, I WILL NOT meet it half way. The end of that nonsense is long overdue, and I've no time to invest waiting for it to wake up.

 

Religion really ought to take a good look at itself and recognize the damage that it has done and offer an apology, but it never seems to be willing to do that because that would require admitting to themselves and everyone else that they are wrong.

 

Why should I have to negotiate my life and my reality with those who I know with certainty have absolutely no idea of what they are talking about?

 

Even though I had been subjected to religion's brain washing for the majority of my childhood even by the age of 15 it was completely apparent to me that religion and society were misguided.

 

It is not an opinion that I have a sexual orientation that has me being attracted to my same sex as this is a fact and is a truth, and it is not an opinion that religion has gravely misinformed its followers with untruths to deem such a truth and reality as being wrong. This is perfectly clear to me without question.

 

TRUTH is TRUTH and does not require a BELIEF. When one must believe then they are uncertain of the truth.

 

Pardon me for saying, but you do not sound very open minded. I always got the impression that you were the kind of guy that was tolerant and open to the exchange of different ideas.

 

But you seem really upset. All I did was post a list that I saw on facebook that I assumed would spread a non-judgmental view about Jesus.

Regarding the initial post:

 

I have said a bunch in many of the threads, Religious folk don't form beliefs based on their religion, they form religion based on their beliefs.

 

The initial post is a great example of this.

 

Jesus said nothing about gay people. I mean, if you believe, you believe Jesus is the son of God and he came to earth with a message to deliver, and that message is recorded in the Bible which is a book that has been written with Divine guidance. And in the book, Jesus says nothing about gay people.

 

But people have opinions about gay people, so we get people literally making stuff up about "what Jesus would say to gay people." And in a development that should shock absolutely no one, when people make stuff up for Jesus to say, the stuff they make up for him to say just happens to be entirely consistent with their beliefs.

 

And if you don't agree, well, ....a pox on you because you are disagreeing with someone who simply makes up beliefs about a god who agrees with them, so you essentially end up disagreeing with their version of god.

Jesus said nothing about gay people.

 

Good point, I disagree though. I think Jesus absolutely spoke about gay people. But you are correct that there is not a direct quote in the gospels that uses the word homosexuality.

 

Matthew 19:4-6 touches the issue.

John 16:12-13 gives credibility to the new testament letters that directly address the issue.

Good point, I disagree though. I think Jesus absolutely spoke about gay people. But you are correct that there is not a direct quote in the gospels that uses the word homosexuality.

 

Matthew 19:4-6 touches the issue.

John 16:12-13 gives credibility to the new testament letters that directly address the issue.

 

I'm not seeing where either of those show Jesus speaking about gay people. Could you clarify?

Like the pushing the insistence of this on kids.

LGBT Crowd Eyes Preschool Children | Fox News

 

That is bull crap.