@Run To State

 

Matthew establishes that God created marriage between men and women and that no one should try to break that up.

 

John 16 establishes that the rest of the new testament was written by the Holy Spirit, and since Christians believe in the trinity it was also written by Jesus, therefore in Romans and Corinthians where homosexuality is blatantly condemned is (in my opinion) coming from Jesus. This also is discussed in Peter's letters where he says "Prophecy did not come from man's interpretation, but the holy spirit carried men as they wrote (paraphrase)" and in 2 Timothy where it says "ALL scripture is God-Breathed"

 

But you are correct in saying that in the 4 gospels I cannot find a place where Jesus says the word "homosexuality" or "gay"

I hate this topic. It's virtually impossible to debate without offending.

 

And that is the problem with where we are today.

Pardon me for saying, but you do not sound very open minded. I always got the impression that you were the kind of guy that was tolerant and open to the exchange of different ideas.

 

But you seem really upset. All I did was post a list that I saw on facebook that I assumed would spread a non-judgmental view about Jesus.

 

I'm not upset by what you have presented here, and I realize that you have a clear conscience about your intentions, and that you are no doubt a decent guy. I realize that it must've dumbfounded you and caught you off guard that I would react as I have when your approach is about as passive and non-condemning as it can possibly be.

 

My apologies to you if my words came across as hurtful to you personally.

 

I realize that it seems extreme on my part considering the nature of your original post. I'm not particularly reacting to that post specifically or you, but I suppose that I've had it up to my eyeballs that religion is so intent on always starting from the premise that something so natural as a sexual orientation and acting on it is a sin and therefore something that we should feel that we are wrong about, and something that we should repent about.

 

Even in religion's current more passive approach its aim is to convince its followers of its inaccurate stance, and as an extension of that society as a whole is continuing to be mislead even within a culture that has shown great strides in understanding.

 

I know in my heart the difference between sharing loving intimacy with someone versus using someone else for the sake of my own selfish pleasures. My conscience is keen and capable of determining this, and as a human being I would never go as far as saying that I've always been perfect, or that I've never done anything in my life that I am not ashamed of, but that would be for me to determine and judge for myself regarding my own behavior. Religion has no place in determining this for me.

 

I realize that for those who have spent their lives seeking their guidance from religion that it must be mind boggling that anyone would take a more existential approach to life, but for me that is the most sensible realistic approach that I can imagine.

 

There's a difference between being open minded in the face of open mindedness, and the urge to want to say "talk to the hand" in the face of close mindedness. I don't think of you personally as being closed minded, but religion in general is intent on sticking to its guns regarding its stance knowing that otherwise its foundation would fall apart if it were to try its hand at getting real.

 

If one truly truly understood what damage religion, in its close mindedness, has done to oppress so many people for so many years, one would understand why I have no more patience for it while it dilly dallies its way into reality all the while hanging onto, and perpetrating myth.

 

It's newer nicer face is still smoke and mirrors to continue to push its misinformation for the sake of holding onto its foundation of thought even when that thinking is wrong. Religion doesn't see it, nor is it willing to admit it.

 

It's not an opinion that homosexuality is a natural orientation that has existed naturally as a true reality for millions throughout time.

 

It is an opinion for religion to deem it as wrong. It is religion that is passing judgement and is close minded and has been resistant to truly understanding while encouraging millions to follow right along with its closed mindedness.

 

Religion acting like it understands while continuing to deem it a sin is talking out of both sides of its mouth, and though while it thinks of itself as being more helpful and understanding in today's world, if it continues to misinform then it is showing its direct lineage to its horrible misguided past.

 

I'm living now, and I don't have time to wait for however many decades and even centuries it might take for religion to get real.

 

Religion was late long ago, and it continues to be late still. It can't have it both ways with trying to appear more understanding, while obviously not being so. For some people though, I give them credit for at least trying.

 

Either religion gets it, or it doesn't. If it continues to keep pushing myth, it obviously does not.

 

It may seem harsh and radical of me to spell it out so starkly, but how can religion expect gays to be accepting and good natured when the foundation of religion's message is still based in misinformation, and the very same misinformation that helped to destroy so many lives for so long? It may seem that I'm going overboard and making a mountain out of a molehill, but historically religion has been no molehill.

 

It's a little hard to forget all about that, especially when knowing that religion, even in its newer face is still holding onto and teaching falsehoods.

 

Thankfully in today's world religion has less and less a grip on the law of the land and that justice is at last finally finding its way into people's lives, Religion cannot be thanked for that as it has been what has held up the process.

 

Thankfully in today's world people feel more and more freedom to not be suppressed by religion, but I cannot ignore that its grip for far too long is what had a very damaging effect on so many peoples' lives.

 

As long as it continues to be a force passing falsehoods, even with a seemingly loving smile, I consider it to be a danger to our culture, but thankfully our culture has progressed and it's not nearly as difficult as it once was to tell religion straight to its face that it does not control my life, and no longer has any business being in my life.

 

If there is a God, and I have not closed myself off to that possibility, I am at the least for certain that I will not find this truth within the teachings of a man-made religion that has demonstrated to me time and again that it doesn't know anymore about the ultimate truth than I do, and with it's history of misinformation it's likely that it knows even less.

 

When seeking the truth, misinformation does not hold water with me. If I detect man-made concepts within religion, which I most certainly do, then I can be for certain that this is not where certain truth can be found.

 

I would never go as far as petitioning against peoples' freedom to worship, and if anything I would stand up for their right to do so, but when religion's aim is to interfere with my freedoms, which is what it has done for centuries, then I would not hesitate one second to tell it to get out of my face and go to hell.

 

It's easy in today's more accepting world to quickly forget just how damaging religion has been, and if its aims are to remain in the dark ages and to be the facet that interferes with progress then I can't support it, and to avoid allowing it to push culture backwards I find no shame in calling it out and demanding that it stay in its proper place, for if history has any lessons to be learned, religion has far too many times crossed the line, and if I have anything to say, its day of doing so is done.

 

With all that said this does not mean that I do not see and appreciate our culture's attempts and strides at understanding. I can even see where some within religion in some respects are trying to as well, but its obstacles and shortcomings are a result of its insistence of clinging to myths. That's the corner that it has backed itself into, and its own paradoxical dilemma. That's up to religion to face or not, but in the meantime I have no qualms about living my life the best I see fit.

@Run To State

 

Matthew establishes that God created marriage between men and women and that no one should try to break that up.

 

John 16 establishes that the rest of the new testament was written by the Holy Spirit, and since Christians believe in the trinity it was also written by Jesus, therefore in Romans and Corinthians where homosexuality is blatantly condemned is (in my opinion) coming from Jesus. This also is discussed in Peter's letters where he says "Prophecy did not come from man's interpretation, but the holy spirit carried men as they wrote (paraphrase)" and in 2 Timothy where it says "ALL scripture is God-Breathed"

 

But you are correct in saying that in the 4 gospels I cannot find a place where Jesus says the word "homosexuality" or "gay"

 

I appreciate your clarification. I have another question. If we go by everything in the bible as literal, as all scripture being God-Breathed, what is your take on the age of the earth? I see the earth being a lot older than less than 10,000 years.

I appreciate your clarification. I have another question. If we go by everything in the bible as literal, as all scripture being God-Breathed, what is your take on the age of the earth? I see the earth being a lot older than less than 10,000 years.

 

I agree with you. The creation museum people do not like me very much

I agree with you. The creation museum people do not like me very much

 

Ha ha!, I wouldn't guess they would.

It's for reasons like this (as well as others) that I don't believe God condemns the gay community. I can't see God condemning someone that is attracted to the same sex because I truly believe that is how they are born. Knowing the few people that I do that are gay (less than 10), I know what struggles they have endured. I simply refuse to add to the problems they've had to deal with and prefer to let them know I accept them for who they are as they accept me for who I am (craziness and all :woot:) because as imperfect as I am I have no business to judge them just because their sexual attraction is different than mine. I see them as much as God's people as me and my family.

 

I appreciate you hearing me out on this subject and for your thoughts. You have always struck me as a good man, I hope one day I can mirror your good qualities.

@Run To State

 

Don't give me too much credit. I got mad yesterday and threw my pitching wedge like 40 yards and shaking my fist at the heavens

@Run To State

 

Don't give me too much credit. I got mad yesterday and threw my pitching wedge like 40 yards and shaking my fist at the heavens

 

Anyone that's ever stepped foot on a golf course has been there. :lol2:

Ha ha!, I wouldn't guess they would.

It's for reasons like this (as well as others) that I don't believe God condemns the gay community. I can't see God condemning someone that is attracted to the same sex because I truly believe that is how they are born. Knowing the few people that I do that are gay (less than 10), I know what struggles they have endured. I simply refuse to add to the problems they've had to deal with and prefer to let them know I accept them for who they are as they accept me for who I am (craziness and all :woot:) because as imperfect as I am I have no business to judge them just because their sexual attraction is different than mine. I see them as much as God's people as me and my family.

 

I appreciate you hearing me out on this subject and for your thoughts. You have always struck me as a good man, I hope one day I can mirror your good qualities.

 

I'm the farthest thing from a Biblical scholar, but I'm with you here.

@Run To State

 

Don't give me too much credit. I got mad yesterday and threw my pitching wedge like 40 yards and shaking my fist at the heavens

 

Be careful... The 2:10 mark...

[video=youtube;r95a3p8Os-w]

I'm the farthest thing from a Biblical scholar, but I'm with you here.

 

Welcome to Hell. You don't get to correct the word of GOD. Believe what you want. It's harsh but the truth. Liberalism is your gateway to the deep south.

Welcome to Hell. You don't get to correct the word of GOD. Believe what you want. It's harsh but the truth. Liberalism is your gateway to the deep south.

 

I'm thinking Hell is going to be a lot more crowded than Heaven. I suppose it's like those NKY gated communities...lots of walls to keep people out.

Edited July 4, 201610 yr by Randy Parker
Political comment

I'm thinking Hell is going to be a lot more crowded than Heaven. I suppose it's like those NKY gated communities...lots of walls to keep people out.

 

No doubt. Gotta admit I din't know that being liberal was an automatic disqualifier.:lol2:

 

I'm happy that we have a couple of members that won't need fans and extra drinking water.

Edited July 4, 201610 yr by Randy Parker

No doubt. Gotta admit I din't know that being liberal was an automatic disqualifier.:lol2:

 

I'm happy that we have a couple of members that won't need fans and extra drinking water.

 

When anything goes. What do you think? There are rules and its not whatever society deems ok. I guess killing kids is good with you to under the guise of choice. You reap what you sow. Ever heard of that?

I'm thinking Hell is going to be a lot more crowded than Heaven. I suppose it's like those NKY gated communities....lots of walls to keep people out.

 

What are those gated communities like? I dont live in one. If standing for morals of the bible makes you a bad person then I guess I'm in the bad boys club. Its better than the club who isn't standing for anything, by standing for everything. no-one is kept out of heaven, you exclude yourself.

Edited July 4, 201610 yr by Randy Parker